Killington Option Tax

[johnny the jibber]

i wonder if the stowe faithful complain about the tax? probably not...

[laseranimal]

most $towe $kiers wouldn't bend over to pick up a $50 since it was beneath them

[Geoff]

most $towe $kiers wouldn't bend over to pick up a $50 since it was beneath them

It's spelled Steaux.

A college pass there is $400.00 if you buy it in the fall. A full pass bought early is only $300 more than a Kmart pass bought early. A pretty big slice of their customer base is Chittenden County people who aren't exactly rolling in money. The Trustafarians are certainly visible but they're far from the majority.

[laseranimal]

I wasn't talking about locals/college kids

more the weekender types from Greenwich which in fact is pronounced Gren-ich

the "w" is silent

I had a ridiculously tough time informing the people of the Capital district that in fact Greenwich NY and Greenwich CT are in fact pronounced differently, but that was nothing compared to getting them to say Darien correctly

[Geoff]

I wasn't talking about locals/college kids

more the weekender types from Greenwich which in fact is pronounced Gren-ich

the "w" is silent

I had a ridiculously tough time informing the people of the Capital district that in fact Greenwich NY and Greenwich CT are in fact pronounced differently, but that was nothing compared to getting them to say Darien correctly

Did you know that if you plug Greenwich, NY into Google Maps that it gives you Greenwich, CT? Not only is it pronounced differently... Greenwich, NY also is pretty much invisible on the internet.

Looking at the map, I believe I actually drove through it once going from Skidmore to Stratton back in the 1970's. After that bar crawl, it's not surprising that I have no memory of it. I'm a New Englander. 4am bar closings and after hours clubs were new to me at the time.

Going back on-topic, if you own property in Stowe, I agree you pretty much have to be quite affluent. That was certainly true back when I skied there as a UVM student. It's even more true today.

Of course, the dream of Killington (the town) is to somehow morph it into Stowe where people want to go there in the summer. With the blight of an access road rather than a quaint New England village, I don't see it happening no matter how many events they stage to pull people in. If you're going to the "mountains" in the summer, you envision Woodstock, Dorset, or Stowe, not Sushi Yoshi, Shops at the Shack, and Our Lady of Perpetual Profit under the clock tower. A base village ain't gonna change that.

[Mister Moose]

Of course, the dream of Killington (the town) is to somehow morph it into Stowe where people want to go there in the summer. With the blight of an access road rather than a quaint New England village, I don't see it happening no matter how many events they stage to pull people in. If you're going to the "mountains" in the summer, you envision Woodstock, Dorset, or Stowe, not Sushi Yoshi, Shops at the Shack, and Our Lady of Perpetual Profit under the clock tower. A base village ain't gonna change that.

Raising sales taxes will lower net resort area volume. Period. You can argue how much, but like time and entropy, price flexibility flows in one direction only.

Leveraging a slight drop in volume in winter to invest in achieving some gain in summer might pay off. Might. Remember this is a government body that will be running the program, and a committee at that.

Lastly, if the event is big enough, they will still come for the event. The key is making the event(s) big enough, because as Geoff points out, no one is coming for the town. They won't come for a manufactured village full of "Shops at the Shack" retailers and "Benedetto’s Pizzeria " restaurants either.

One more point. The aircraft industry is full of wealthy customers. There are no poor airplane owners. In the early 80's, when fuel prices were going up, insurance prices were going up, labor contracts were going up, liability lawsuits were going up, and the economy was in a slump, did the wealthy keep on buying planes?

No.

The factories closed entire divisions. It was a 90% reduction in production. How much money does Donald Trump have? He flies a used 727 that he bought cheaper than a new executive sized jet.

Don't ever think the ability to raise prices has no limit with the wealthy.

[laseranimal]

exactly

you need EVENTS to drive your summer business

How bout a lax tournament? http://www.lakeplacidlax.com/

this thing is HUGE, 31 teams at @21 players each plus all who need lodging and food. Many of the older division players will bring their families up for the weekend.

How bout putting the 2 Golf Courses to use hosting a Tour event, granted you aren't likely to get a PGA/Nationwide/LPGA event, but I'm sure you'd be able to get a Duramed Futures tour event(LPGA minor league)

Its also a question of MARKETING the events as well, if nobody knows they're happening, its not going to matter how good they are.

Then you have to get the restaurants and shops to stay open! Nobody is going to come back if they show up and Sushi Yoshi, Wobbly, Caseys, Charity's, Wally's etc are closed up and they have to drive all the way down into Rutland to eat at McDonalds.

[Bubba]

exactly

you need EVENTS to drive your summer business

How bout a lax tournament? http://www.lakeplacidlax.com/

this thing is HUGE, 31 teams at @21 players each plus all who need lodging and food. Many of the older division players will bring their families up for the weekend.

How bout putting the 2 Golf Courses to use hosting a Tour event, granted you aren't likely to get a PGA/Nationwide/LPGA event, but I'm sure you'd be able to get a Duramed Futures tour event(LPGA minor league)

Its also a question of MARKETING the events as well, if nobody knows they're happening, its not going to matter how good they are.

Then you have to get the restaurants and shops to stay open! Nobody is going to come back if they show up and Sushi Yoshi, Wobbly, Caseys, Charity's, Wally's etc are closed up and they have to drive all the way down into Rutland to eat at McDonalds.

Green Mountain National course on 100 north hosted the ladies futures tour for a few years.

Killington used to have the horse show and other events - gone.

Killington used to market a full senior program for the summer. Marketing got cut back and the senior citizen summer population that came from Florida has been gradually dying off - literally - without new retirees coming to replace them.

Restaurant closures are a chicken and egg problem - they close because there are fewer people and people don't come up the access road because there are fewer restaurants open.

[Geoff]

exactly

you need EVENTS to drive your summer business

How bout a lax tournament? http://www.lakeplacidlax.com/

this thing is HUGE, 31 teams at @21 players each plus all who need lodging and food. Many of the older division players will bring their families up for the weekend.

How bout putting the 2 Golf Courses to use hosting a Tour event, granted you aren't likely to get a PGA/Nationwide/LPGA event, but I'm sure you'd be able to get a Duramed Futures tour event(LPGA minor league)

Its also a question of MARKETING the events as well, if nobody knows they're happening, its not going to matter how good they are.

Then you have to get the restaurants and shops to stay open! Nobody is going to come back if they show up and Sushi Yoshi, Wobbly, Caseys, Charity's, Wally's etc are closed up and they have to drive all the way down into Rutland to eat at McDonalds.

Green Mountain National course on 100 north hosted the ladies futures tour for a few years.

Killington used to have the horse show and other events - gone.

Killington used to market a full senior program for the summer. Marketing got cut back and the senior citizen summer population that came from Florida has been gradually dying off - literally - without new retirees coming to replace them.

Restaurant closures are a chicken and egg problem - they close because there are fewer people and people don't come up the access road because there are fewer restaurants open.

The trike race used to be enormous and pulled all the share house people back up for a weekend. It died a horrible death when it got moved off the Access Road to the Summit driveway with plastic Big Wheels.

[SPORE]

I wasn't talking about locals/college kids

more the weekender types from Greenwich which in fact is pronounced Gren-ich

the "w" is silent

I had a ridiculously tough time informing the people of the Capital district that in fact Greenwich NY and Greenwich CT are in fact pronounced differently, but that was nothing compared to getting them to say Darien correctly

People from Greenwich (CT) are not going to Killington, and I highly doubt they will begin to. It's all about Stratton.

[laseranimal]

I wasn't talking about locals/college kids

more the weekender types from Greenwich which in fact is pronounced Gren-ich

the "w" is silent

I had a ridiculously tough time informing the people of the Capital district that in fact Greenwich NY and Greenwich CT are in fact pronounced differently, but that was nothing compared to getting them to say Darien correctly

People from Greenwich (CT) are not going to Killington, and I highly doubt they will begin to. It's all about Stratton.

Did I say they were?

I meant they were headed to Burlington airport and getting chauffeured to $towe where they have their 8 bedroom 12000 square foot "cottage"

[SPORE]

I wasn't talking about locals/college kids

more the weekender types from Greenwich which in fact is pronounced Gren-ich

the "w" is silent

I had a ridiculously tough time informing the people of the Capital district that in fact Greenwich NY and Greenwich CT are in fact pronounced differently, but that was nothing compared to getting them to say Darien correctly

People from Greenwich (CT) are not going to Killington, and I highly doubt they will begin to. It's all about Stratton.

Did I say they were?

I meant they were headed to Burlington airport and getting chauffeured to $towe where they have their 8 bedroom 12000 square foot "cottage"

I see your stereotype of Greenwich is strong, they aren't going to Stowe either.

Stowe draws the Boston Elite, Stratton the NYC area elite.

[laseranimal]

living there for 14 years will do that to you


Granted I'm probably the wrong messenger for hating on Greenwich and all that it encompasses; given that my parents probably spend close to 1/2 a million on my education, and to show for it I'm making just a shade under 20k a year which makes me a huge disappointment at all the social events when parents talk about what there kids are doing with their lives.

But I was never as comfy as the rest of my family when we lived there. We all went to the right day/prep schools, belonged to the right clubs, and I'd be completely lying if I told you I didn't take full advantage of being wealthy.

But I could never square the fact that we and the rest of Greenwich lived so well while people in Port Chester and parts of Stamford were living paycheck to paycheck. It just never sat well with me, I dunno, I'm idealistic as hell. Yeah, I get it people are generally poor cause they're stupid and don't know any better. One of the people that works with me is getting almost $7000 in her tax refund and instead of throwing the money in the bank or buying healthcare or investing in her 401k, she's on her way out to buy a new flatscreen TV to replace the one she bought last year. 2 months from now she's gonna be crying to us all that she has no money to pay for her rent.

But that doesn't mean I can't look at my parents and the new 5 million dollar, six bedroom townhouse they bought in Stamford(when there are only 5 people in the family and 3 of them don't live at home anymore) and question if there's enough money to build and buy something like that, why are children in this country going to go hungry tonight.

[buzzkill]

living there for 14 years will do that to you


Granted I'm probably the wrong messenger for hating on Greenwich and all that it encompasses; given that my parents probably spend close to 1/2 a million on my education, and to show for it I'm making just a shade under 20k a year which makes me a huge disappointment at all the social events when parents talk about what there kids are doing with their lives.

But I was never as comfy as the rest of my family when we lived there. We all went to the right day/prep schools, belonged to the right clubs, and I'd be completely lying if I told you I didn't take full advantage of being wealthy.

But I could never square the fact that we and the rest of Greenwich lived so well while people in Port Chester and parts of Stamford were living paycheck to paycheck. It just never sat well with me, I dunno, I'm idealistic as hell. Yeah, I get it people are generally poor cause they're stupid and don't know any better. One of the people that works with me is getting almost $7000 in her tax refund and instead of throwing the money in the bank or buying healthcare or investing in her 401k, she's on her way out to buy a new flatscreen TV to replace the one she bought last year. 2 months from now she's gonna be crying to us all that she has no money to pay for her rent.

But that doesn't mean I can't look at my parents and the new 5 million dollar, six bedroom townhouse they bought in Stamford(when there are only 5 people in the family and 3 of them don't live at home anymore) and question if there's enough money to build and buy something like that, why are children in this country going to go hungry tonight.

you forgot to mention the double-wide you're living out of in E. Schodack.

[laseranimal]

living there for 14 years will do that to you


Granted I'm probably the wrong messenger for hating on Greenwich and all that it encompasses; given that my parents probably spend close to 1/2 a million on my education, and to show for it I'm making just a shade under 20k a year which makes me a huge disappointment at all the social events when parents talk about what there kids are doing with their lives.

But I was never as comfy as the rest of my family when we lived there. We all went to the right day/prep schools, belonged to the right clubs, and I'd be completely lying if I told you I didn't take full advantage of being wealthy.

But I could never square the fact that we and the rest of Greenwich lived so well while people in Port Chester and parts of Stamford were living paycheck to paycheck. It just never sat well with me, I dunno, I'm idealistic as hell. Yeah, I get it people are generally poor cause they're stupid and don't know any better. One of the people that works with me is getting almost $7000 in her tax refund and instead of throwing the money in the bank or buying healthcare or investing in her 401k, she's on her way out to buy a new flatscreen TV to replace the one she bought last year. 2 months from now she's gonna be crying to us all that she has no money to pay for her rent.

But that doesn't mean I can't look at my parents and the new 5 million dollar, six bedroom townhouse they bought in Stamford(when there are only 5 people in the family and 3 of them don't live at home anymore) and question if there's enough money to build and buy something like that, why are children in this country going to go hungry tonight.

you forgot to mention the double-wide you're living out of in E. Schodack.

Come on man

I represent Corliss Park, Troy Housing Authority What you talking about Double Wide?