RENO wrote:
Yes, get rid of the triple and quad and put in a HSQ up the line of the POMA lift. Move the POMA to skiers right on upper Bunny...
Very unlikely.
Much more likely to see the existing snowdon quad towers reused.
Might see some regrading around the base of the triple/gondi and the traverse around the parking lot.
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With any Vermont ski area I would always answer Snowmaking Improvements have to be number 1, and to a lesser extent grooming, but had no idea of the childrens program costs. Thats outrageous but really curious given the expectations of where I thought they would be trying to market. My kids are now teens so it doesnt impact me but for the good of any mountains survival that should be addressed. Cant imagine the thought process that arrived at those price points.
RENO wrote:
Yes, get rid of the triple and quad and put in a HSQ up the line of the POMA lift. Move the POMA to skiers right on upper Bunny...
Very unlikely.
Much more likely to see the existing snowdon quad towers reused.
Might see some regrading around the base of the triple/gondi and the traverse around the parking lot.
i agree that the quad is the better pick of the 2 to replace, but isnt it much newer than the triple? i would think they would replace an older lift first. if they replaced the triple, then there would be another high speed lift out of KBL........which is nice. i still think replacing the quad with a high speed and shortening the triple to the old mid station would be the best reconfiguration of snowdon.
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RENO wrote:
Yes, get rid of the triple and quad and put in a HSQ up the line of the POMA lift. Move the POMA to skiers right on upper Bunny...
Very unlikely.
Much more likely to see the existing snowdon quad towers reused.
Might see some regrading around the base of the triple/gondi and the traverse around the parking lot.
i agree that the quad is the better pick of the 2 to replace, but isnt it much newer than the triple? i would think they would replace an older lift first. if they replaced the triple, then there would be another high speed lift out of KBL........which is nice. i still think replacing the quad with a high speed and shortening the triple to the old mid station would be the best reconfiguration of snowdon.
How about replacing both with one high speed quad with the base somewhere between the currently existing chairs and the top somewhere between the two existing chairs as well? Put a mid-station around the Poma and get rid of that too.
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Bubba wrote:How about replacing both with one high speed quad with the base somewhere between the currently existing chairs and the top somewhere between the two existing chairs as well? Put a mid-station around the Poma and get rid of that too.
that could work, but do u see them doing that?.....not really IMO. not to be a hippy, but theres no need to cut any more trees on snowdon. i really like the lower part of chute too, so i favor replacing the quad more so cus of that. maybe if the quad went, there could be some more parking spots over there? would def be a nice area to lit up a bbq and have some cold ones...
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Bubba wrote:
How about replacing both with one high speed quad with the base somewhere between the currently existing chairs and the top somewhere between the two existing chairs as well?
Bubba wrote:How about replacing both with one high speed quad with the base somewhere between the currently existing chairs and the top somewhere between the two existing chairs as well? Put a mid-station around the Poma and get rid of that too.
that could work, but do u see them doing that?.....not really IMO. not to be a hippy, but theres no need to cut any more trees on snowdon. i really like the lower part of chute too, so i favor replacing the quad more so cus of that. maybe if the quad went, there could be some more parking spots over there? would def be a nice area to lit up a bbq and have some cold ones...
I think some of the land at that end of the KBL parking lot may end up as development sites for homes at some point, which would mean that they'll need a trail down to Ramshead, which they already have, and a lift out of that area which could be the replacement we're talking about. In fact, work on Snowdon may have to wait until development plans are finalized between Powdr and SP and approved by the town. That's just a guess on my part but coordinating lifts and real estate development is clearly an issue when SP has no approved master plan in place.
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"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function" =
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Bubba wrote:I think some of the land at that end of the KBL parking lot may end up as development sites for homes at some point, which would mean that they'll need a trail down to Ramshead, which they already have, and a lift out of that area which could be the replacement we're talking about. In fact, work on Snowdon may have to wait until development plans are finalized between Powdr and SP and approved by the town. That's just a guess on my part but coordinating lifts and real estate development is clearly an issue when SP has no approved master plan in place.
very good point.
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So, how would you restructure pricing, because you've hit on one of the key issues I asked about. Your point is that season pass pricing isn't rational and, between that and the price of the kids' program, Killington has driven families away. How would you restructure both pricing and program options? What should Killington charge for an adult pass, a kids' pass and a college pass? What price would make sense for a family and how would this compare, for example, to Sugarbush and Okemo? What kids' programs should be offered in addition to (or as a replacement for) the high priced program they have today?[/quote]
I don't think the adult season passes are priced incorrectly compared to the local competition. But clearly $180 per day, full day option only, for a 5 and 6 yo ski lesson is way over priced and out of reach for many families. As I said I have had several families not come up to K because of this issue alone. The # of kids enrolled in ministars is way down compared to prior years. Cost issue.
There has been mimnimal change in the program from before. The same highschool and college kid fill ins are the coaches and the max 5 is simply a marketing gimick. The free Cheerios on weekends doesn't quite justify the $180 per day.
I would like to see a season pass for ages 6-12 be reasonable or comparable to a college kid pass. The mini star program needs to be value priced for families. A big picture analysis needs to be done as to how much a family of say 4 spends overall on a trip up to Killington. Lifts, retail, meals and then use the ski school as a value added item based upon the total revenue of the visit. We were told that PWDR views each revenue source as a seperate profit center. While I understand that as a business owner I think a long term, big picture view must be taken in running a ski resort or any recreational, discretionary spending business is concerned, and look at the total revenue generated, or lost per visit or non visit. My quick price point for a full day ministars lesson is somewhere between $80 and $100 and no free Cheerios. A Season pass holders would receive some sort off discount based upon the number of days the kids are enrolled. Because if the kids are enrolled Mom, Dad and their friends are on the mountain spending money in the restaurants, bars stores etc...
Bubba wrote:
So, how would you restructure pricing, because you've hit on one of the key issues I asked about. Your point is that season pass pricing isn't rational and, between that and the price of the kids' program, Killington has driven families away. How would you restructure both pricing and program options? What should Killington charge for an adult pass, a kids' pass and a college pass? What price would make sense for a family and how would this compare, for example, to Sugarbush and Okemo? What kids' programs should be offered in addition to (or as a replacement for) the high priced program they have today?
I'd have a tiered season pass pricing based on age. At the moment, Junior passes are overpriced. College passes are underpriced.
I'd create a set of non-competitive kid programs. The way it's structured now, kids who don't want to go a race or bumper track get cast off. That program should be the very inexpensive one focused on fun recreational skiing. It would include things like 'coach-in-training' for older kids. I hear they already have a small 'sled dog in training' program. Where you need more specialized coaching with bumps & gates, parents are going to have to pay for it.
If you raise the price of an adult season pass, free passes for people who work the programs become more of an incentive and it's easier to get free help. I think the season pass prices need to keep creeping up. $50.00/year for the next few years. The Blackout Pass is very underpriced at the moment. At $650, what incentive is there to work in a program as a volunteer?
One more question I asked that I don't think anyone has addressed - is there a value to getting next year's improvement and pricing announcements out early, such as before the end of this season, or can some of it wait until June or July or even later?
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You can checkout any time you like,
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"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function" =
F. Scott Fitzgerald
"There's nothing more frightening than ignorance in action" - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
Bubba wrote:One more question I asked that I don't think anyone has addressed - is there a value to getting next year's improvement and pricing announcements out early, such as before the end of this season, or can some of it wait until June or July or even later?
I figure most folks who buy the early pass, buy it either way. The improvement update is gonna get the folks off the fence that haven't made up their minds. If I were Killington, I wouldnt want them to get off the fence until discount days were over...
Bubba wrote:One more question I asked that I don't think anyone has addressed - is there a value to getting next year's improvement and pricing announcements out early, such as before the end of this season, or can some of it wait until June or July or even later?
I figure most folks who buy the early pass, buy it either way. The improvement update is gonna get the folks off the fence that haven't made up their minds. If I were Killington, I wouldnt want them to get off the fence until discount days were over...
But what if you're trying to attract people BACK to Killington who left over the past few years for the Bush, Okemo, Sunday River or elsewhere? Or people who elected not to buy passes and start checking out other places on day tickets? Wouldn't you want to get their attention?
"Abandon hope all ye who enter here"
Killington Zone
You can checkout any time you like,
but you can never leave
"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function" =
F. Scott Fitzgerald
"There's nothing more frightening than ignorance in action" - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
Bubba wrote:One more question I asked that I don't think anyone has addressed - is there a value to getting next year's improvement and pricing announcements out early, such as before the end of this season, or can some of it wait until June or July or even later?
I figure most folks who buy the early pass, buy it either way. The improvement update is gonna get the folks off the fence that haven't made up their minds. If I were Killington, I wouldnt want them to get off the fence until discount days were over...
But what if you're trying to attract people BACK to Killington who left over the past few years for the Bush, Okemo, Sunday River or elsewhere? Or people who elected not to buy passes and start checking out other places on day tickets? Wouldn't you want to get their attention?
If they've changed their minds and want people back, that's logical. Last I heard, they are happy with the current skier load...
