Mister Moose wrote:
I was in college at the time, and I don't remember being eligible for any deferment. My number, literally, didn't come up. But that whole discussion isn't relevant.
Of course it's relevant. Eric's point is that people with money often avoided the military. In the Vietnam era, you could get a deferment by attending college. Pretty much the whole middle class was affluent enough to avoid the draft and those drafted were mostly the poor.
The draft process was substantially changed
by the introduction of the draft lottery in late
1969. The first lottery, held 1 December 1969,
assigned numbers by month and day of birth to
men born between 1944 and 1950. Priority for
induction in 1970 was based on these randomsequence
numbers, and was in principle independent
of age. Importantly, however, educational
deferments continued to be issued until September
1971, and men who were in college at that
time were allowed to maintain their deferment
until age 24. Thus, individuals enrolled in col-
lege could delay their risk of induction through
most of the years of the draft lottery. Since the
rate of inductions slowed to a trickle after June
197 1, most individuals who obtained deferments
in 1970 or 1971 permanently avoided
military service.
Of course, Ronald Reagan came along in 1980 and made military service respectable again. The 1970's were a pretty bleak time for the US military.
"Of course, Ronald Reagan came along in 1980 and made military service respectable again. The 1970's were a pretty bleak time for the US military."
Actually, under Nixon and Ford the Military was not all that bad. Pay sucked, but benefits and other things were pretty good as was moral. There were a few problems with cut backs as Vietnam wound down, but not much. Once Jimmy got into office and started cutting back and locking pay, well that is when people stopped re-enlisting and said screw it. He cut the navy to pieces and eliminated some major projects like the B-1 Bomber, several Submarines and backed off on the Trident projects. All of that depleted the fleets and man power and forced Reagan to spend Billions more to bring things back to par.
Mister Moose wrote:
I was in college at the time, and I don't remember being eligible for any deferment. My number, literally, didn't come up. But that whole discussion isn't relevant.
Of course it's relevant. Eric's point is that people with money often avoided the military. In the Vietnam era, you could get a deferment by attending college. Pretty much the whole middle class was affluent enough to avoid the draft and those drafted were mostly the poor.
The draft process was substantially changed
by the introduction of the draft lottery in late
1969. The first lottery, held 1 December 1969,
assigned numbers by month and day of birth to
men born between 1944 and 1950. Priority for
induction in 1970 was based on these randomsequence
numbers, and was in principle independent
of age. Importantly, however, educational
deferments continued to be issued until September
1971, and men who were in college at that
time were allowed to maintain their deferment
until age 24. Thus, individuals enrolled in col-
lege could delay their risk of induction through
most of the years of the draft lottery. Since the
rate of inductions slowed to a trickle after June
197 1, most individuals who obtained deferments
in 1970 or 1971 permanently avoided
military service.
Of course, Ronald Reagan came along in 1980 and made military service respectable again. The 1970's were a pretty bleak time for the US military.
Oh how I remember those days. I was in the first lottery drawing and ended up number 98. I was in college at the time and my graduation normally would've been in June 1971 but, because of the lower lottery number and the fact that they were calling up through 250 or somewhere thereabouts in 1971, I held off by not taking enough credits and graduated in January 1972, putting me in the next year's draft. They eventually set the cut-off at 95 some time during the late summer while I was camping in the Canadian Maritimes. Had they set it at 100, I might've stayed.
I had a good friend who enlisted in the reserves in the late 60s, before the lottery was drawn and he did his basic training, then ended up with number 360 in the lottery. He spent the next 2 years trying to get out of the reserves and finally succeeded. Another friend with #54 failed his physical due to allergies and another friend with a low number who is tall and thin and dieted under a doctor's care in order to get down below the weight limit. At his physical he was measured at 6' 2.75" and 127 lbs. They sent him home too. I can't say it was easy to avoid the draft but if you studied the manual you could generally find a way. If not, there was always the border or the navy to pretty much keep you out of harm's way in the jungles of Vietnam.
"Abandon hope all ye who enter here"
Killington Zone
You can checkout any time you like,
but you can never leave
"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function" =
F. Scott Fitzgerald
"There's nothing more frightening than ignorance in action" - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
Dr. NO wrote:"Of course, Ronald Reagan came along in 1980 and made military service respectable again. The 1970's were a pretty bleak time for the US military."
Actually, under Nixon and Ford the Military was not all that bad. Pay sucked, but benefits and other things were pretty good as was moral. There were a few problems with cut backs as Vietnam wound down, but not much. Once Jimmy got into office and started cutting back and locking pay, well that is when people stopped re-enlisting and said screw it. He cut the navy to pieces and eliminated some major projects like the B-1 Bomber, several Submarines and backed off on the Trident projects. All of that depleted the fleets and man power and forced Reagan to spend Billions more to bring things back to par.
Are you one of the "little people" who served?
Geoff wrote:
Mister Moose wrote:
I was in college at the time, and I don't remember being eligible for any deferment. My number, literally, didn't come up. But that whole discussion isn't relevant.
Of course it's relevant. Eric's point is that people with money often avoided the military. In the Vietnam era, you could get a deferment by attending college. Pretty much the whole middle class was affluent enough to avoid the draft and those drafted were mostly the poor.
The draft process was substantially changed
by the introduction of the draft lottery in late
1969. The first lottery, held 1 December 1969,
assigned numbers by month and day of birth to
men born between 1944 and 1950. Priority for
induction in 1970 was based on these randomsequence
numbers, and was in principle independent
of age. Importantly, however, educational
deferments continued to be issued until September
1971, and men who were in college at that
time were allowed to maintain their deferment
until age 24. Thus, individuals enrolled in col-
lege could delay their risk of induction through
most of the years of the draft lottery. Since the
rate of inductions slowed to a trickle after June
197 1, most individuals who obtained deferments
in 1970 or 1971 permanently avoided
military service.
Of course, Ronald Reagan came along in 1980 and made military service respectable again. The 1970's were a pretty bleak time for the US military.
It's very nice of you to clarify Eric's point. Perhaps if he could write something a bit more coherent, it might be read with some respect for his position. He didn't. He spoke in ignorant generalities and Mister Moose responded quite eloquently more than once.
Why yes, yes I am, enlisting in November 1970 and discharged January 1978. Lucked out and served on Minute Man Missiles in Cheyenne, Wyoming for 6 years rather than being deployed in SE Asia and other wonderful locations.
Dr. NO wrote:"Of course, Ronald Reagan came along in 1980 and made military service respectable again. The 1970's were a pretty bleak time for the US military."
Actually, under Nixon and Ford the Military was not all that bad. Pay sucked, but benefits and other things were pretty good as was moral. There were a few problems with cut backs as Vietnam wound down, but not much. Once Jimmy got into office and started cutting back and locking pay, well that is when people stopped re-enlisting and said screw it. He cut the navy to pieces and eliminated some major projects like the B-1 Bomber, several Submarines and backed off on the Trident projects. All of that depleted the fleets and man power and forced Reagan to spend Billions more to bring things back to par.
I meant the Jimmy Carter late-1970's. If Eric had made is comment about the military in, say, 1977, I doubt it would have drawn remarks from anybody unless you said it in a VFW club or on a military base.
Dr. NO wrote:"Of course, Ronald Reagan came along in 1980 and made military service respectable again. The 1970's were a pretty bleak time for the US military."
Actually, under Nixon and Ford the Military was not all that bad. Pay sucked, but benefits and other things were pretty good as was moral. There were a few problems with cut backs as Vietnam wound down, but not much. Once Jimmy got into office and started cutting back and locking pay, well that is when people stopped re-enlisting and said screw it. He cut the navy to pieces and eliminated some major projects like the B-1 Bomber, several Submarines and backed off on the Trident projects. All of that depleted the fleets and man power and forced Reagan to spend Billions more to bring things back to par.
Are you one of the "little people" who served?
Geoff wrote:
Mister Moose wrote:
I was in college at the time, and I don't remember being eligible for any deferment. My number, literally, didn't come up. But that whole discussion isn't relevant.
Of course it's relevant. Eric's point is that people with money often avoided the military. In the Vietnam era, you could get a deferment by attending college. Pretty much the whole middle class was affluent enough to avoid the draft and those drafted were mostly the poor.
The draft process was substantially changed
by the introduction of the draft lottery in late
1969. The first lottery, held 1 December 1969,
assigned numbers by month and day of birth to
men born between 1944 and 1950. Priority for
induction in 1970 was based on these randomsequence
numbers, and was in principle independent
of age. Importantly, however, educational
deferments continued to be issued until September
1971, and men who were in college at that
time were allowed to maintain their deferment
until age 24. Thus, individuals enrolled in col-
lege could delay their risk of induction through
most of the years of the draft lottery. Since the
rate of inductions slowed to a trickle after June
197 1, most individuals who obtained deferments
in 1970 or 1971 permanently avoided
military service.
Of course, Ronald Reagan came along in 1980 and made military service respectable again. The 1970's were a pretty bleak time for the US military.
It's very nice of you to clarify Eric's point. Perhaps if he could write something a bit more coherent, it might be read with some respect for his position. He didn't. He spoke in ignorant generalities and Mister Moose responded quite eloquently more than once.
every person i have met that was in the service or whos father was in the service all say the same thing. dont trust anyone they are deceitful people....everything is a smoke screen it looks like what you think but it aint when was the last time your saw a child from someone from upper middle class or above go into the service? NEVER??
Dr. NO wrote:"Of course, Ronald Reagan came along in 1980 and made military service respectable again. The 1970's were a pretty bleak time for the US military."
Actually, under Nixon and Ford the Military was not all that bad. Pay sucked, but benefits and other things were pretty good as was moral. There were a few problems with cut backs as Vietnam wound down, but not much. Once Jimmy got into office and started cutting back and locking pay, well that is when people stopped re-enlisting and said screw it. He cut the navy to pieces and eliminated some major projects like the B-1 Bomber, several Submarines and backed off on the Trident projects. All of that depleted the fleets and man power and forced Reagan to spend Billions more to bring things back to par.
Are you one of the "little people" who served?
Geoff wrote:
Mister Moose wrote:
I was in college at the time, and I don't remember being eligible for any deferment. My number, literally, didn't come up. But that whole discussion isn't relevant.
Of course it's relevant. Eric's point is that people with money often avoided the military. In the Vietnam era, you could get a deferment by attending college. Pretty much the whole middle class was affluent enough to avoid the draft and those drafted were mostly the poor.
The draft process was substantially changed
by the introduction of the draft lottery in late
1969. The first lottery, held 1 December 1969,
assigned numbers by month and day of birth to
men born between 1944 and 1950. Priority for
induction in 1970 was based on these randomsequence
numbers, and was in principle independent
of age. Importantly, however, educational
deferments continued to be issued until September
1971, and men who were in college at that
time were allowed to maintain their deferment
until age 24. Thus, individuals enrolled in col-
lege could delay their risk of induction through
most of the years of the draft lottery. Since the
rate of inductions slowed to a trickle after June
197 1, most individuals who obtained deferments
in 1970 or 1971 permanently avoided
military service.
Of course, Ronald Reagan came along in 1980 and made military service respectable again. The 1970's were a pretty bleak time for the US military.
It's very nice of you to clarify Eric's point. Perhaps if he could write something a bit more coherent, it might be read with some respect for his position. He didn't. He spoke in ignorant generalities and Mister Moose responded quite eloquently more than once.
every person i have met that was in the service or whos father was in the service all say the same thing. dont trust anyone they are deceitful people....everything is a smoke screen it looks like what you think but it aint when was the last time your saw a child from someone from upper middle class or above go into the service? NEVER??
Are you messin' with me??????????? Go back and read the thread. You do have reading comprehension issues, mr. herringbone. Kiss my a$$. I know a ton of men and women currently serving who's intellect would bury you.
I apologize to Mr. H and any Kzoners who have read this thread. I should not have engaged him. He's an ignorant man who knows not whereof he speaks on this topic. I wish I could introduce him to every YOUNG navy, army and marine young person in my life. Some have started their careers through ROTC, others have attended the service academies (including one who just became a Navy SEAL.)
I apologize for posting in such a way as to give this man to a forum in which to perpetuate his ignorant rantings.
Mister Moose wrote:
I was in college at the time, and I don't remember being eligible for any deferment. My number, literally, didn't come up. But that whole discussion isn't relevant.
Of course it's relevant. Eric's point is that people with money often avoided the military. In the Vietnam era, you could get a deferment by attending college. Pretty much the whole middle class was affluent enough to avoid the draft and those drafted were mostly the poor.
So you dismiss Eric/Dis/HB's sweeping statement from the civil war to present based on a period from 1969 to 1971 when deferment was available? Dis never mentioned Vietnam. He went further than saying some individuals through flight to Canada or money avoided military service. He characterized all who served:
smart people in america do not fight in wars. thats for little people.
He was talking in the present tense about someone who was currently in the military. This Vietnam point you seem to dwell on is a distraction, not central to the discussion. Furthermore Dis's statement applied to all. You are discussing a certain group.
I'm aware that throughout time the young and the disadvantaged had a proportionately higher representation on the front lines. However there are many, many, who volunteer and put themselves in harm's way. They all, volunteer and draftee alike, deserve better treatment than that.
Herringbone wrote: every person i have met that was in the service or whos father was in the service all say the same thing. dont trust anyone they are deceitful people....everything is a smoke screen it looks like what you think but it aint when was the last time your saw a child from someone from upper middle class or above go into the service? NEVER??
No problem. I know a multi millionaire's daughter who enlisted in the Navy and became one of the first female fighter pilots. She was stationed off a carrier in the Med. Her parents were half scared to death the whole time.
My uncle was on the beach in Normandy on D-day. My other uncle flew bombers in Europe. My grandfather took a bullet and came home with a purple heart from France. My uncle's cousin was one of the first to die in WWII. My father flew fighters in the Air Force, and continued on with the Air National Guard. They were all proud of their service, and spoke highly of the people they served with. They had friendships that endured their entire lives from the military.
These people don't tend to brag, and you don't hear much about the current crop. That doesn't mean they aren't there.
You sound like you likely will never wake up and appreciate any of the talented and dedicated people that volunteer their time and livelyhood on your behalf.
Herringbone wrote:
how would you know anything about me? I have never had more than a 2 minute conversation with you. I know more about this lil monkey than you will ever know. I know people that grew up with him. He's a punk. He smashed up his mothers car, he was a drunk, hes been arrested, etc etc....hes a loser lady!! get it thru your head. I hate to tell you this but smart people in america do not fight in wars. thats for little people. During the Civil War families who could afford $500 would give the gov the $$ & their sons were safe from going to war. youre are a lost soul!! are you sure youre raising your children properly??
Now this is just an idiotic statement. The people in the military academies are some pretty smart people. The guys/girls flying jets, commanding weapons systems, controlling satellites, etc...are need to be pretty bright to be in those positions. Granted, some of the grunts may not be some of the sharpest tacks, but we would be speaking Japanese, Russian or Chinese if we didn't have some brilliant "little people". Recant your statement. It's just dumb.
skidogg wrote:trl is a great place to stay it,s my home in vermont , leave it out or face the dogg when you come to see the herrrrrin boooonnne
you havent been to trl yet this season!! dont think i havent told uncle richie that you have been cheating on him....
You've got some nerve calling Skibum a douchebag. He's currently in Afghanistan fighting those who want to do harm to this country. He's more of a caring man than you ever will be. You're a scumbag for using his wedding picture to prove one of your points.
He's more of a caring man than you ever will be.
how would you know anything about me? I have never had more than a 2 minute conversation with you. I know more about this lil monkey than you will ever know. I know people that grew up with him. He's a punk. He smashed up his mothers car, he was a drunk, hes been arrested, etc etc....hes a loser lady!! get it thru your head. I hate to tell you this but smart people in america do not fight in wars. thats for little people. During the Civil War families who could afford $500 would give the gov the $$ & their sons were safe from going to war. youre are a lost soul!! are you sure youre raising your children properly??
watch it buddy, my father served in vietnam. your not hard to find...
he would shove your ass so far up your ass and stuff! -thejet61 10/2/09
If a snowboarder is in front of me or to the side I assume the slobbering moron will cut from one side of the trail to the other -GSKI 1/17/12
