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How many do you figure that K lost to other areas ?Bubba wrote:You can't necessarily measure a marketing campaign by one year's results, especially when the campaign is trying to regain core customers who turned to other ski areas. The Beast campaign was not a failure, rather the failure was in failing to match the operation with the message. That will cost them going forward, regardless of whose bonus might have been at risk this year.Geoff wrote:If "The Beast" was such a great marketing strategy, why did the traffic counts on the Access Road continue to decline?Mister Moose wrote:I'm going to say that next year the Beast will be back in full green atire. What gets changed in marketing is the website.chewbacca wrote: So last year was THE BEAST campaign. Genius at work. I wonder what the new brand will be for next year? Maybe THE MONSTER?
As a decision, going with "The Beast" was not the mistake. It was failing to over deliver after they under promised.
Snowmaking, (except throwing 20% more on Superstar) was acceptable to everyone, customer service improved, food stayed the same, grooming was ok but still room for improvement, seeded bumps were well received and hopefully return bigger and earlier next year, staffing levels still show a lean operation, and lift ops kept things running for the most part. They even shifted operation hours for the late spring. It was the closing ahead of the announced date with adequate snow (and spring pass customers complaining) that left a sour taste in everyone's mouth.
In ranking after ranking, the entity known as "The Killington access road" scores high as the party place to be in ski country in the east. It is a major attraction for the resort. POWDR would be well served to cultivate this, help the restaurants and bars prosper and grow. Closing earlier than other resorts doesn't help.
The problem is obviously the lack of a high speed lift on Snowdon.
By the way, I've been told that skier visits were up this year by several thousand. I believe, however, that the skier visit count includes Pico which I believe saw a significant increase due to its pricing. That means Killington was flat or even down over last year.
You know, I get tired of helpless people who just speculate. The data is out there. Go look it up instead of making sh*t up.SnoBrdr wrote: How many do you figure that K lost to other areas ?
100, 1000, 10,000 or have people just stopped coming because of the costs/economy .
Good point. Let's look at all the data they reported.Geoff wrote: If you go with VSAA data:
2000-2001 4.5 million, the all-time high
2006-2007 3,820,431
2007-2008 4,354,621
2008-2009 4,068,696
What is wrong with superstar for spring? No runout, TONS of snowmaking on it and they have been using it for years n years, lets not reinvent the wheel, lets just put some runflat snow tires on it.flatnhard wrote:1.
2. Diffently need to lengthen the ski season again. Making Super Star the spring trail is to costly. Plenty of other trails to do spring skiing that could be buried with a good snow pack.
...but Superstar did re-invent the wheel. June 1 skiing used to be on Upper Downdraft with loading at the midstation of the Killington double. Narrower trail. Higher elevation. Much better snow preservation. A fraction of the cost to blow the snow.daytripper wrote:What is wrong with superstar for spring? No runout, TONS of snowmaking on it and they have been using it for years n years, lets not reinvent the wheel, lets just put some runflat snow tires on it.flatnhard wrote:1.
2. Diffently need to lengthen the ski season again. Making Super Star the spring trail is to costly. Plenty of other trails to do spring skiing that could be buried with a good snow pack.
while i remember doing the late season skiing on downdraft, i don't remember it being the "scene" w/ all the tailgating etc that supe became. remember the liftline at the midstation going back up the hill early season but not so much late season. i think they pretty much switched over to late season on supe if not in it's first season, by it's second and i think late season then became more popular. being at the base seemed to promote more of a scene.Geoff wrote:...but Superstar did re-invent the wheel. June 1 skiing used to be on Upper Downdraft with loading at the midstation of the Killington double. Narrower trail. Higher elevation. Much better snow preservation. A fraction of the cost to blow the snow.daytripper wrote:What is wrong with superstar for spring? No runout, TONS of snowmaking on it and they have been using it for years n years, lets not reinvent the wheel, lets just put some runflat snow tires on it.flatnhard wrote:1.
2. Diffently need to lengthen the ski season again. Making Super Star the spring trail is to costly. Plenty of other trails to do spring skiing that could be buried with a good snow pack.
Superstar was always more of an "I'm defying nature" kind of thing.
Allen Wilson said once that it made no business sense to blow all that snow on Superstar.....skiadikt wrote:while i remember doing the late season skiing on downdraft, i don't remember it being the "scene" w/ all the tailgating etc that supe became. remember the liftline at the midstation going back up the hill early season but not so much late season. i think they pretty much switched over to late season on supe if not in it's first season, by it's second and i think late season then became more popular. being at the base seemed to promote more of a scene.Geoff wrote:...but Superstar did re-invent the wheel. June 1 skiing used to be on Upper Downdraft with loading at the midstation of the Killington double. Narrower trail. Higher elevation. Much better snow preservation. A fraction of the cost to blow the snow.daytripper wrote:What is wrong with superstar for spring? No runout, TONS of snowmaking on it and they have been using it for years n years, lets not reinvent the wheel, lets just put some runflat snow tires on it.flatnhard wrote:1.
2. Diffently need to lengthen the ski season again. Making Super Star the spring trail is to costly. Plenty of other trails to do spring skiing that could be buried with a good snow pack.
Superstar was always more of an "I'm defying nature" kind of thing.
but yeah building 25-30 ft base depths on supe was certainly shock & awe and pres' way of flipping mama nature the bird.
bubba, you'd probably know better than anyone the increase in energy costs over the last 20 years or so. seems to me that season pass prices have pretty much stayed constant over the same period (other than the 2 or 3 cheap asc yrs). don't think pass prices have even come close to keeping up with the increase in energy costs.Bubba wrote:Allen Wilson said once that it made no business sense to blow all that snow on Superstar.....skiadikt wrote:while i remember doing the late season skiing on downdraft, i don't remember it being the "scene" w/ all the tailgating etc that supe became. remember the liftline at the midstation going back up the hill early season but not so much late season. i think they pretty much switched over to late season on supe if not in it's first season, by it's second and i think late season then became more popular. being at the base seemed to promote more of a scene.Geoff wrote:...but Superstar did re-invent the wheel. June 1 skiing used to be on Upper Downdraft with loading at the midstation of the Killington double. Narrower trail. Higher elevation. Much better snow preservation. A fraction of the cost to blow the snow.daytripper wrote:What is wrong with superstar for spring? No runout, TONS of snowmaking on it and they have been using it for years n years, lets not reinvent the wheel, lets just put some runflat snow tires on it.flatnhard wrote:1.
2. Diffently need to lengthen the ski season again. Making Super Star the spring trail is to costly. Plenty of other trails to do spring skiing that could be buried with a good snow pack.
Superstar was always more of an "I'm defying nature" kind of thing.
but yeah building 25-30 ft base depths on supe was certainly shock & awe and pres' way of flipping mama nature the bird.
Might explain why Wilson had no business sense.Bubba wrote:
Allen Wilson said once that it made no business sense to blow all that snow on Superstar.....
The data is on the Vermont Department of Transportation site:skiadikt wrote: btw where do those traffic counter numbers come from?
And you gave me a smart answer when I asked a question about data.Geoff wrote:The data is on the Vermont Department of Transportation site:skiadikt wrote: btw where do those traffic counter numbers come from?
http://www.aot.state.vt.us/Planning/Doc ... ns/pub.htm
It's kind of a PITA. You click on the monthly data which is a huge file. Search on "Killington". The first data is the traffic counter on Route 4. The 2nd page you hit is the Access Road. To look at all 6 years data available, you'd have to open 72 really big files. That's why I never bothered with the other 9 months.
The sales tax data is just as tedious.
The whole point is that Killington has a midwinter problem. Buying the Fireside property does nothing to address that. Anything the useless EDC has proposed does nothing to address that. Building a fortress gated communitity in the parking lots and making the day customers park in remote lots doesn't address that. If you can't get the people to show up on the Access Road to spend money, the town falls apart.
I looked up enough to make my point about the decline at Killington relative to state skier visit data. Exactly what have you done other than express unfounded opinions?SnoBrdr wrote: And you gave me a smart answer when I asked a question about data.
I tried to find the info on my own but as you said there is just too much data.
