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easyrider16 wrote:Uh huh. I guess you think we shouldn't sign any treaties in the future, huh? This isn't even a serious conversation anymore.

easyrider16 wrote:I mean if you want to talk about somebody not following treaties, you should start with Trump. He violated WTO rules with his nonsense trade wars.

If Trump were smarter, he would have used the same WTO rules to go after China's alleged violations, and then he might have been in a better position to impose sanctions with the cooperation of other countries instead of his nonsensical unilateral approach. Or, maybe he should have just signed on to the TPP that Obama negotiated which actually would have addressed many of the issues that Trump complains about with China. Instead, he started a trade war that has literally accomplished nothing except to diminish our standing with the rest of the free world.

But you know, just keep drinking the kool aid, there's no need to look at the facts as they are in the real world.

easyrider16 wrote:Um, nope, I'm not, actually. I'm saying that first you need to impose some rules on them, then you can get the international community's cooperation in enforcing them. Doing what Trump has done has accomplished nothing. Do you not see that? He has gotten literally no result in nearly four years of trying. He has failed. He is a failure.

The manufacturing industry has been in a steady decline for the past two decades. A strong US dollar in the late 1990s made foreign goods cheaper just as costs rose, demand dried up and trade deals opened up global competition. Domestic manufacturing firms cut costs, and that often meant finding cheap labor overseas.

That's when, according to Susan Houseman, Director of Research at Upjohn Institute, manufacturing jobs fell off a cliff.
"Before the early 2000s, any decline always bounced back," Houseman said. "This is the first time it kept going down."

Even with the Trump administration's tariffs and heated rhetoric, that trend is not course-correcting, says Robert Scott, director of Trade and Manufacturing Policy Research at the Economic Policy Institute.

"Frankly, Trump is bad for manufacturing. Since he took office, the deficit in goods is up 15%," according to Scott. A trade deficit occurs when a country buys more products then it sells.

Scott says that Trump's trade deals -- the USMCA and the "phase one" deal with China -- fail to address the structural issues that fix long-term trade imbalances, and therefore, help workers.

"His policies haven't helped change anything -- they keep the status quo."

easyrider16 wrote:Or, maybe you're still just drinking the kool aid:

The manufacturing industry has been in a steady decline for the past two decades. A strong US dollar in the late 1990s made foreign goods cheaper just as costs rose, demand dried up and trade deals opened up global competition. Domestic manufacturing firms cut costs, and that often meant finding cheap labor overseas.

That's when, according to Susan Houseman, Director of Research at Upjohn Institute, manufacturing jobs fell off a cliff.
"Before the early 2000s, any decline always bounced back," Houseman said. "This is the first time it kept going down."

Even with the Trump administration's tariffs and heated rhetoric, that trend is not course-correcting, says Robert Scott, director of Trade and Manufacturing Policy Research at the Economic Policy Institute.

"Frankly, Trump is bad for manufacturing. Since he took office, the deficit in goods is up 15%," according to Scott. A trade deficit occurs when a country buys more products then it sells.

Scott says that Trump's trade deals -- the USMCA and the "phase one" deal with China -- fail to address the structural issues that fix long-term trade imbalances, and therefore, help workers.

"His policies haven't helped change anything -- they keep the status quo."

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/08/economy/ ... index.html

hillbangin wrote: ↑Oct 12th, '20, 10:58

easyrider16 wrote:Um, nope, I'm not, actually. I'm saying that first you need to impose some rules on them, then you can get the international community's cooperation in enforcing them. Doing what Trump has done has accomplished nothing. Do you not see that? He has gotten literally no result in nearly four years of trying. He has failed. He is a failure.

Lots of manufacturing coming back because he waived his magic wand.

And the Covid is bringing more of it back.

China bad. USA good.

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A Bureau of Labor Statistics analysis released Sept. 1 said that even prepandemic, the sector was on track to lose nearly 450,000 workers by 2029, the most of any area of the economy. At the same time, output has made a notable recovery due to increased automation, with the industrial production index bouncing back to almost 98 in July — less than 10 points down from February.

hillbangin wrote: ↑Oct 12th, '20, 11:29 Wow. I didnt know that factories have been shutting down for the last 60 years?

I grew up in a factory city and wondered what was going on.

Think it has more to do with automation than cheap labor at this point?

Biden saved the automotive industry supposedly while the automotive industry was going to Mexico on the NAFTA train.

Another good trade deal renegotiated by the bad orange man?

It's going to take more than 3 years to fix all this crap that's been going on since the 60s.

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