TIF Passes

[rogman]

https://mountaintimes.info/voters-pass-47m-tif-bond/

The vote tally was 337 for to 119 against, just about what town officials has predicted leading up to the vote.

[hillbangin]

That's a pretty good majority.

Hmmm. And now the fun begins.

Sent from my SM-S906U1 using Tapatalk

[KingsFourMan]

So now that it has passed the vote, from the TIF District Plan, we can now expect:

Construction of the $25,390,421 Phase 1 water system to commence this year (2023) which includes the valley wells, well house, pump station, storage tank, and all transmission mains throughout the system from the valley wells to the storage tank. It also includes the transmission main from the Storage Tank to the Six Peaks Village and continuing to the Lookout/Glazebrook location along Killington Road.

A specific timetable for Phase 1 of the road project was not given other than - "Phase 1 of the water and road projects will be timed to be completed concurrent with the construction of Phase A of the Six Peaks Killington project. This will provide sufficient water service and road improvements for Phase A to launch." Based on that, my guess is that phase 1 of the road project will commence this summer along with phase 1 of the water project.

According to the TIF, Phase 1 of the road project includes:
- The roads in and around the Village area including the ski bridge over Killington Road
- Reconstruction of the bottom of the access road at Rt 4 up to Anthony Way

The remaining 3 phases of the access road improvements will be completed in succession following phase 1 improvements. All 4 phases will be completed over 6 years. The total cost of the road improvements is approximately $32 million.

With all that said, how long before construction starts on the Phase 1 of the Village itself which includes the new Rams Head and Snowshed base lodges? My guess is Summer of 2024.

How long before presales start on the Village units? My guess is by the end of this year.

Lastly, how long before we hear about the long-awaited Interconnect now going forward? There must have been serious talks between POWDR and Six Peaks about this and the buzz that it would create to help sell the high-end village real estate. There is no way that hasn't been discussed at length and I would not be surprised at all if there was some sort of agreement already in place between them to make it happen. You heard it here first. Not wishful thinking, Pico is gem and I like it the way that it is but as Chris Diomond said in his book Ski Inc., Pico doesn't pencil on it's own financially speaking.

[snoloco]

I think before any interconnect, they will need to upgrade the lifts more directly associated with The Village. They will need to replace the Ramshead Express, Snowshed Express, and Superstar Express based on age and capacity. In the podcast, they had also eluded to replacing the Snowshed Double with a transfer lift directly between Snowshed and K1. A significant snowmaking upgrade will be necessary to cover any additional terrain.

As for Pico, there are two scenarios. Either it gets interconnected and "Killingtoned", meaning homogenized with the rest of the resort, or it stays status quo, where it is run in a way that ensures it never competes with Killington.

[daytripper]

I think Pico would already be on the NELSAP list if Powdr didn't intend on doing the interconnect at some point.

[snoloco]

Pico went belly up as an indy in the 90s. Otten bought it for pennies on the dollar, specifically to connect it to Killington. That never happened, and it's been an auxiliary ski area for Killington ever since. Another major Vermont ski resort owned by Otten back in the day also had an auxiliary mountain. That was Mount Snow with Haystack. What happened to Haystack you may ask? Well, Otten closed it in 2005, and to prevent it from competing with Mount Snow under a different owner, he sold it with a deed restriction that it could never operate as a public ski area again. I believe Pico was only spared because he still dreamed of connecting it to Killington someday. His company had a crushing debt load and an itchy trigger finger, and I'm sure other damaging, short sighted decisions were at least considered. At Killington, we're still stuck with two of them where he literally abandoned large parts of the mountain.

[asher2789]

I think before any interconnect, they will need to upgrade the lifts more directly associated with The Village. They will need to replace the Ramshead Express, Snowshed Express, and Superstar Express based on age and capacity. In the podcast, they had also eluded to replacing the Snowshed Double with a transfer lift directly between Snowshed and K1. A significant snowmaking upgrade will be necessary to cover any additional terrain.

As for Pico, there are two scenarios. Either it gets interconnected and "Killingtoned", meaning homogenized with the rest of the resort, or it stays status quo, where it is run in a way that ensures it never competes with Killington.

that would be awesome, but they need a fixed grip running out of snowshed/ramshead for when theres lift icing to get people moving. perhaps the transfer lift will be a modern fixed grip like the NRQ. im hoping ramshead gets replaced with the same lift as the snowdon six. if theres anywhere on the mountain that could use a bubble, its that lift!

i wonder if it is possible to connect killington to pico without killing picos vibe. probably not. i foresee it becoming connected.

i also wonder how long this whole project is going to take, realistically. five years? decade? more?

[snoloco]

I assume any transfer lift would have to be a gondola so foot traffic could ride it. This would allow for year-round access between the village, K1 Lodge, and the peak. Ice would not be an issue for such a lift. One, it would be rather short, and short lifts have fewer issues with icing, as the grips cycle more often. Also, any towers would be easily accessible by snowmobile, or simply from the road.

[asher2789]

I assume any transfer lift would have to be a gondola so foot traffic could ride it. This would allow for year-round access between the village, K1 Lodge, and the peak. Ice would not be an issue for such a lift. One, it would be rather short, and short lifts have fewer issues with icing, as the grips cycle more often. Also, any towers would be easily accessible by snowmobile, or simply from the road.

true, didnt think of that. although as it stands now there isnt a gondola from the lower bases to k1 and they do just fine. i dont see why they cant have foot traffic on the snowshed or ramshead quads, they already have mountain bikers...

they still need a fixed grip of some sort or in bad weather theres gonna be massive bottleneck to get out of there to open lifts. thats one of killingtons strengths, every area of the mountain has a fixed grip lift.

[SPORE]

I assume any transfer lift would have to be a gondola so foot traffic could ride it. This would allow for year-round access between the village, K1 Lodge, and the peak. Ice would not be an issue for such a lift. One, it would be rather short, and short lifts have fewer issues with icing, as the grips cycle more often. Also, any towers would be easily accessible by snowmobile, or simply from the road.

true, didnt think of that. although as it stands now there isnt a gondola from the lower bases to k1 and they do just fine. i dont see why they cant have foot traffic on the snowshed or ramshead quads, they already have mountain bikers...

they still need a fixed grip of some sort or in bad weather theres gonna be massive bottleneck to get out of there to open lifts. thats one of killingtons strengths, every area of the mountain has a fixed grip lift.

Yeah - that worked really well for them last Saturday morning, couldn't get the Snowdown Triple running until almost 9am.

[snoloco]

true, didnt think of that. although as it stands now there isnt a gondola from the lower bases to k1 and they do just fine. i dont see why they cant have foot traffic on the snowshed or ramshead quads, they already have mountain bikers...

they still need a fixed grip of some sort or in bad weather theres gonna be massive bottleneck to get out of there to open lifts. thats one of killingtons strengths, every area of the mountain has a fixed grip lift.

You cannot have foot traffic on a chair in the winter, unless you want to be slowing it down every time a foot passenger gets on or off. Neither Snowshed nor Ramshead provide a direct connection to K1 Base, and that's what was discussed in the podcast. They didn't go into depth about the type of lift, just that it was something being considered. I think it would be a good thing to have with the increased lodging base. Even as a day tripper, I can think of scenarios where I would use it.

I think with a route sited to be out of the wind, and indoor carrier parking, similar uptime could be achieved to a fixed grip.

[boston_e]

As for Pico, there are two scenarios. Either it gets interconnected and "Killingtoned", meaning homogenized with the rest of the resort, or it stays status quo, where it is run in a way that ensures it never competes with Killington.

Hopefully it’s the latter. And as it is now, don’t they essentially run it in a way that does not compete with Killington?

i wonder if it is possible to connect killington to pico without killing picos vibe. probably not. i foresee it becoming connected.

Impossible. An interconnect would ruin Pico.

[daytripper]

As for Pico, there are two scenarios. Either it gets interconnected and "Killingtoned", meaning homogenized with the rest of the resort, or it stays status quo, where it is run in a way that ensures it never competes with Killington.

Hopefully it’s the latter. And as it is now, don’t they essentially run it in a way that does not compete with Killington?

i wonder if it is possible to connect killington to pico without killing picos vibe. probably not. i foresee it becoming connected.

Impossible. An interconnect would ruin Pico.

Wouldn't closing Pico down ruin it more?

[brownman]

Whoa there K4M .. One step at a time
Be thankful .. may get better water from the spigot
Road don’t bother us none.

[boston_e]

As for Pico, there are two scenarios. Either it gets interconnected and "Killingtoned", meaning homogenized with the rest of the resort, or it stays status quo, where it is run in a way that ensures it never competes with Killington.

Hopefully it’s the latter. And as it is now, don’t they essentially run it in a way that does not compete with Killington?

i wonder if it is possible to connect killington to pico without killing picos vibe. probably not. i foresee it becoming connected.

Impossible. An interconnect would ruin Pico.

Wouldn't closing Pico down ruin it more?

Sure but there is no indication that would happen. It appears that they are able to run it profitably with their current model.