1st Amendment Rights
-
- Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome
- Posts: 3980
- Joined: Apr 25th, '10, 17:03
1st Amendment Rights
What do folks think should be the limits to 1st Amendment rights?
In the wake of Orlando, there's been a number of things Trump has said that I disagree with, but one that I do agree with is the need for surveillance of mosques with known ties to radicalization. And it's not just mosques, but any place of worship, club etc. that promotes acts of violence against other Americans.
I saw this article and video this morning.
http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2016/06/ ... ub-attack/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
To me this goes beyond what should be the limits of free speech. We often talk that one of the reasons there's so much violence in the USA is because of our failure to treat the mentally ill. In the case of violence, shouldn't criminal insanity be a large part of the discussion? Aren't those who promote jihad criminally insane and a danger to society and themselves? Should such people be allowed to walk the streets as ticking time bombs? Should a pastor like this man be allowed to promote violence against gays even if it's his wish that it's the government that carries out the violence?
I guess I just see the best plan to reducing violence is to recognize the threats before it happens as well as eliminate what can create such radical thoughts and behavior. Would anyone be surprised if a member of this man's church went out and committed a hate crime against a gay person? I certainly wouldn't.
In the wake of Orlando, there's been a number of things Trump has said that I disagree with, but one that I do agree with is the need for surveillance of mosques with known ties to radicalization. And it's not just mosques, but any place of worship, club etc. that promotes acts of violence against other Americans.
I saw this article and video this morning.
http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2016/06/ ... ub-attack/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
To me this goes beyond what should be the limits of free speech. We often talk that one of the reasons there's so much violence in the USA is because of our failure to treat the mentally ill. In the case of violence, shouldn't criminal insanity be a large part of the discussion? Aren't those who promote jihad criminally insane and a danger to society and themselves? Should such people be allowed to walk the streets as ticking time bombs? Should a pastor like this man be allowed to promote violence against gays even if it's his wish that it's the government that carries out the violence?
I guess I just see the best plan to reducing violence is to recognize the threats before it happens as well as eliminate what can create such radical thoughts and behavior. Would anyone be surprised if a member of this man's church went out and committed a hate crime against a gay person? I certainly wouldn't.
Re: 1st Amendment Rights
IF said mosque or a person attending said mosque is under investigation for some purpose I see no problem with covert surveillance w a sealed court order...but if it's 24/7 video/audio surveillance then probably no...plenty of places are hotbeds for criminal enterprise and the like but resources only can go so far...deadheadskier wrote:What do folks think should be the limits to 1st Amendment rights?
In the wake of Orlando, there's been a number of things Trump has said that I disagree with, but one that I do agree with is the need for surveillance of mosques with known ties to radicalization. And it's not just mosques, but any place of worship, club etc. that promotes acts of violence against other Americans.
I saw this article and video this morning.
http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2016/06/ ... ub-attack/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
To me this goes beyond what should be the limits of free speech. We often talk that one of the reasons there's so much violence in the USA is because of our failure to treat the mentally ill. In the case of violence, shouldn't criminal insanity be a large part of the discussion? Aren't those who promote jihad criminally insaneno, they know what they are doing they just believe its right,ie the "good hate"... and a danger to society and themselves? yes of course they are Should such people be allowed to walk the streets as ticking time bombs? probably notShould a pastor like this man be allowed to promote violence against gays probably noteven if it's his wish that it's the government that carries out the violence?slippery slope where I mostly liken it to "yelling fire" in any situation other than fire, it would seem his direct words are inciting violence regardless of religious freedom...
I guess I just see the best plan to reducing violence is to recognize the threats before it happens as well as eliminate what can create such radical thoughts and behavior. thoughts and behavior can never be fully controlled, public approval/disapproval goes a long way but it also leads to mob rule and abuse of minority opinions, soooo....I guess it's up to "culture" itself?Would anyone be surprised if a member of this man's church went out and committed a hate crime against a gay person? definitely not...I certainly wouldn't.
one thing about trump, he forces issues into the mainstream discussion....
mach es sehr schnell
'exponential reciprocation'- The practice of always giving back more than you take....
'exponential reciprocation'- The practice of always giving back more than you take....
-
- Post Office
- Posts: 4540
- Joined: Sep 12th, '11, 21:53
- Location: Brooklyn, NY/Pittsford,VT
Re: 1st Amendment Rights
NYPD has been doing surveillance for years as I'm sure other gov't agencies have been doing as well. In fact the NYPD just had a law suit thrown out of court about their surveillance of NJ mosques. The ruling is being appealed. Surveillance is something that is already being done.
-
- Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome
- Posts: 3980
- Joined: Apr 25th, '10, 17:03
Re: 1st Amendment Rights
I suppose the big hurdle is that a crooked Imam or Pastor could skirt around the issue by just reciting the passages in the books that call for the violence.
The vast majority of religious people are peaceful, but it's still used as a tool for social control. The problem is that sick people know that method of control is easy to use to rally support for violent purposes. Do this because God/Allah whatever says so.
The vast majority of religious people are peaceful, but it's still used as a tool for social control. The problem is that sick people know that method of control is easy to use to rally support for violent purposes. Do this because God/Allah whatever says so.
-
- Post Office
- Posts: 4540
- Joined: Sep 12th, '11, 21:53
- Location: Brooklyn, NY/Pittsford,VT
Re: 1st Amendment Rights
You mean like Obama's preacher?
Re: 1st Amendment Rights
deadheadskier wrote:I suppose the big hurdle is that a crooked Imam or Pastor could skirt around the issue by just reciting the passages in the books that call for the violence. pretty much with every law in a country that lives by "rule of law" vs "absolute rule" the onus is on the individual to voluntarily comply with little to no physical restrictions necessary, it's the cornerstone of a free society....
The vast majority of religious people are peaceful, but it was invented as a tool for social control. The problem is that sick people know that method of control is easy to use to rally support for violent purposes. Do this because God/Allah whatever says so.power corrupts ...
mach es sehr schnell
'exponential reciprocation'- The practice of always giving back more than you take....
'exponential reciprocation'- The practice of always giving back more than you take....
-
- Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome
- Posts: 3980
- Joined: Apr 25th, '10, 17:03
Re: 1st Amendment Rights
That guy is an ahole, but he's not calling on people or the government to kill anyone in that speech.
Re: 1st Amendment Rights
always a fine line, should he be under investigation though? I dunno about that either...so where do you draw the line? as far as anyone knows no one wright "preached" to went out and committed a violent crime ( or any crime) as a result...
mach es sehr schnell
'exponential reciprocation'- The practice of always giving back more than you take....
'exponential reciprocation'- The practice of always giving back more than you take....
-
- Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome
- Posts: 3980
- Joined: Apr 25th, '10, 17:03
Re: 1st Amendment Rights
I'm talking about that speech specifically. He's condemning the government in an aggressive fashion. If that were illegal half this forum would be serving a life sentence, myself included. Lol
Maybe some of his other speeches call for violence against innocent people, which I would have a problem with like the other pastor. First time I've ever watched a speech of his.
Maybe some of his other speeches call for violence against innocent people, which I would have a problem with like the other pastor. First time I've ever watched a speech of his.
-
- Post Office
- Posts: 4540
- Joined: Sep 12th, '11, 21:53
- Location: Brooklyn, NY/Pittsford,VT
Re: 1st Amendment Rights
No it's in that speech towards the end. "Violence against innocents. it's in the book" he said.deadheadskier wrote:Maybe some of his other speeches call for violence against innocent people
-
- Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome
- Posts: 3980
- Joined: Apr 25th, '10, 17:03
Re: 1st Amendment Rights
I'm not following you. He utters killing innocent people it's in the Bible. You interpret that as him calling on his followers or the government to go out and kill people? If that's what he's calling for than yes, I have an issue with it.steamboat1 wrote:No it's in that speech towards the end. "Violence against innocents. it's in the book" he said.deadheadskier wrote:Maybe some of his other speeches call for violence against innocent people
-
- Post Office
- Posts: 4540
- Joined: Sep 12th, '11, 21:53
- Location: Brooklyn, NY/Pittsford,VT
Re: 1st Amendment Rights
God Damn America!!!
- Attachments
-
- barak-praying.jpg (37.5 KiB) Viewed 666 times
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 26353
- Joined: Nov 5th, '04, 08:42
- Location: Where the climate suits my clothes
Re: 1st Amendment Rights
As long as we're on the subject of the Bill of Rights, let's look at a 4th Amendment decision just handed down.
Supreme Court rules 5-3 that mistakes by officer don’t undermine conviction
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... ml?ref=yfp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Supreme Court rules 5-3 that mistakes by officer don’t undermine conviction
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... ml?ref=yfp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Abandon hope all ye who enter here"
Killington Zone
You can checkout any time you like,
but you can never leave
"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function" =
F. Scott Fitzgerald
"There's nothing more frightening than ignorance in action" - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
Killington Zone
You can checkout any time you like,
but you can never leave
"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function" =
F. Scott Fitzgerald
"There's nothing more frightening than ignorance in action" - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
Re: 1st Amendment Rights
An interesting article on the Bill of Rights.
http://reason.com/blog/2016/06/20/the-s ... -of-rights
http://reason.com/blog/2016/06/20/the-s ... -of-rights