world cup sucks

[Highway Star]

The World Cup doesn’t suck. But yes many people feel your pain.

I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately given the “facts” that have come out around general snowmaking capacity and the timing of top to bottom.

I think the pain we feel the most is while other mountains are making a genuine push and succeeding at delivering top to bottom. It is so far away from Killingtons mind they could honestly care less.

I think as passholders we’ve shown our loyalty to Killington. What’s unfortunate is we still have two way stairs when other resorts are going to be top to bottom. Take away the resorts that got 12” and there are still others doing a better job.

I fully understand the World Cup. I fully understand the massive construction projects taking place. I’m not saying we absolutely should be top to bottom.

What I miss is the “push” or the “march down great northern”. Those things would be happening immediately and we would be hearing about it. Even if it wasn’t fully successful. If it were not for the World Cup and now this year the construction.

I think we just need to hear that they’re trying. Or understand what the real plan is. Get someone in marketing on a camera and explain these things.

You sold season passes on the promise of new gondolas, bubble chairs, tunnels, early and late season skiing. All of which are in the air right now.

Walking the stairs is not and never will be a pleasurable early season experience.

I've said for many years that they should put a midstation on the K-1, and it wouldn't be insanely expensive or obstructive. It could literally be a pair of platforms and they could run the lift in a pulsed configuration where there are groups of cabins loaded and the lift is slowed down only at the midstation, as needed.

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Or they could install a proper detach midstation, which is not that outlandish.

[Downdraft]

While the armchair management is entertaining, many have short memories, so let me put out some facts about the Killington snowmaking system.

Since the World Cup began they have had 24 Doosan/IR IQ1600 diesel rentals (split between the Snowshed and Bear pads) totally 38,400 CFM and 35,000 more CFM from their in house Centacs. All of this combined gives Killington around 73,000 CFM of air. Prior to the World Cup, each pad varied but was usually less than half full since the Efficiency VT program.

For water, with both Snowshed and Bear pump houses online they can pump around 12,000 GPM total. Both can be configured to send water anywhere on the hill. Air is already everywhere regardless without isolation.

Each K3000 will use up to 600 CFM / 10 GPM in the most marginal wet bulb, down/up to 200 CFM / 80 GPM in the coldest wet bulb.

They would need to run 120 K3000s on Superstar alone in a 26-28 degree wet bulb to completely exhaust their air supply. They do not come close to hitting water limits this early.

I've never counted more than 60 or so used on SS when it's absolute marginal and at their highest air/water ratio, they have to run up high or lose the temps.

In summary, it is October - the weather is up or down. They are making a business decision (not infrastructure) to build depths up higher to weather the early season before putting snow on the ground just to watch it wash away down lower. However, they have the capacity to do so if they wanted. If they wanted to run the World Cup at your expense they would not have doubled their rental fleet.

Damn those little k3000’s are just as bad as a double rat. Except lighter weight.

[Highway Star]

.....air supply..........

DUN DUN DUNNNNNNN!

[snoloco]

Last year when it was mid November and they weren't even trying for ttb while many other ski areas were opening significantly more terrain, people like HS had a point. The only reason they went ttb on November 12th is because lots of people were complaining about it. The flaw here is mountain ops acted like it was still October and wasted hours building up the base on Rime when that could've been done later. This year things are way earlier. It makes zero sense to go ttb unless the weather is good enough that they won't have to go back to the stairs.

Killington is able to stay open continuously much better than their competitors because they have a massive elevation advantage with North Ridge. Does it really make sense to give that up and go ttb in October when it might melt out?

[Highway Star]

Each K3000 will use up to 600 CFM / 10 GPM in the most marginal wet bulb, down/up to 200 CFM / 80 GPM in the coldest wet bulb.

They would need to run 120 K3000s on Superstar alone in a 26-28 degree wet bulb to completely exhaust their air supply. They do not come close to hitting water limits this early.

Not exactly. If they're running 600 CFM through a K3000 at 28F web bulb, its also flowing a very significant amount of water. A setting of 600CFM / 10GPM is more applicable to the 32-36F wet bulb range.

[Highway Star]

Killington is able to stay open continuously much better than their competitors because they have a massive elevation advantage with North Ridge. Does it really make sense to give that up and go ttb in October when it might melt out?

You might be one of the few people that can be beaten by the straw man that you constructed.

[alanlw9]

So we can all agree they are making a business decision not to expand, not that the capacity is not there. We also should be able to agree that given the abnormal number of snowmaking days we've had that there should be a sufficient base on NRT served terrain.

The frustration is with perceived progress (no expansion plans), not the lack of perfection (TTB).

If TTB isn't a sound business decision, and hordes of people in North Ridge aren't either, what is the next move and why isn't someone communicating it to people?

[Stormchaser]

So we can all agree they are making a business decision not to expand, not that the capacity is not there. We also should be able to agree that given the abnormal number of snowmaking days we've had that there should be a sufficient base on NRT served terrain.

The frustration is with perceived progress (no expansion plans), not the lack of perfection (TTB).

If TTB isn't a sound business decision, and hordes of people in North Ridge aren't either, what is the next move and why isn't someone communicating it to people?

Cuz normal TTB doesn't occur for 3 more weeks based on the last 15 years of operations?

[alanlw9]

Cuz normal TTB doesn't occur for 3 more weeks based on the last 15 years of operations?

Even in my original post I never said they truly should be TTB.

I'm asking what the next big push is, because North Ridge operations alone are not sustainable.

[DrJeff]

Has anyone crying about a lack of an effort to get open to the base yet actually looked at the weather forecast for next week? There's a good chance, that because of the efforts to build upon the base up in the Northridge pod the last few days, that K will be the only area open in VT come next weekend, and who knows depending on how much/little snow SR has been able to put down the last few days, maybe even New England (I kind of doubt the amount of snow Wildcat's been able to put down will be enough to last through the week, and their natural this week certainly looks like it won't be enough to last the week)

[Stormchaser]

Cuz normal TTB doesn't occur for 3 more weeks based on the last 15 years of operations?

Even in my original post I never said they truly should be TTB.

I'm asking what the next big push is, because North Ridge operations alone are not sustainable.

TTB, in 3 weeks. Route TBD based on level of construction completion. Anything prior in North Ridge is bonus skiing.

[snoloco]

In October, the amount of terrain doesn't really matter. It's being open and staying open that does. We've had an unusual amount of cold days in October, and K wisely chose to take that opportunity to increase the depth of the North Ridge terrain to ensure a continuous operation. Sunday River has been making snow ttb all week whenever they had the temps, so I think they'll stay open too. Im pretty sure they'll be ttb this weekend in some capacity, but really only because they have no choice due to the limitations of downloading on Locke. As of now we don't even know if Mount Snow will be able to open ttb. It's just as likely that they'll have only the North Face open with downloading. Wildcat is the only place confirmed ttb this weekend and it's still up in the air whether the two Peak Resorts areas will be able to open again next weekend.

[brownman]

World Cup notwithstanding.. Superstar has never ( to my knowledge ) been officially open in October.
Outer Limit is closed today.
Happy Hollowhine

First things first ..
Boomerang will be a nice bonus this weekend.

[Humpty Dumpty]

.....air supply..........

DUN DUN DUNNNNNNN!

This song makes me sad. Reminds me of when the FPOW (fat pig o' wife) left me for another Humpty.

[skiadikt]

come in from a magnificent day on the hill to this whinefest!?! as far as ttb from the peak goes. dream on ... they've been making snow on the upper GN since monday and it'll finally open tomorrow. going any lower would be foolhardy. they're pounding the north ridge because the weather pattern for the next 2 weeks is absolutely dreary. other than a couple nights at best, there will be little snowmaking anywhere. and whatever snow they made for a ttb effort would have flowed away. and doubtful that any of the areas touting ttb this weekend make it through sunday intact and very likely none of them re-open ttb if at all next weekend. k doesn't have to re-open because they're staying open.

it is tough driving down the access road and have supe with all that snow staring you in the face. but if there was no WC, there'd be no snow on supe. pretty sure that's mostly on the WC's dime.

many benefits long-term benefits to successfully hosting the WC the last 3 years including the snowmaking upgrades which will enable to open supe earlier in the future. willing to bet some of that $25mil is due to the success of the WC. the general prestige and recognition will result in increased fannies. no one else in the east could pull this off t-giving weekend.