Another week, another monsoonal event

[KingsFourMan]

This is getting old, must be the 7th or 8th major r*in event since about December 1st compared to 1 major snow event. Remember when it used to snow in VT in winter more than it r*ined?

Ski resorts would not have been built in the northeast 60-70-80 years ago if winters were like this back then. Nyburg's decision to shutter the Northeast Passage was the right call after all, how often would that area be open today?

At least the west is having a banner year this year.

[daytripper]

This is getting old, must be the 7th or 8th major r*in event since about December 1st compared to 1 major snow event. Remember when it used to snow in VT in winter more than it r*ined?

Ski resorts would not have been built in the northeast 60-70-80 years ago if winters were like this back then. Nyburg's decision to shutter the Northeast Passage was the right call after all, how often would that area be open today?

At least the west is having a banner year this year.

Northeast passag closed in 1999, nyburg had nothing to do with it.

[KingsFourMan]

Northeast passag closed in 1999, nyburg had nothing to do with it.

Les is more Otten did that? Could have sworn it was Nyburg. Wasn't he the one that said "we have a cathedral built for Christmas and Eester"? Regardless, they both sucked for Killington.

[snoloco]

Nyberg closed Skyeship and Pico on Tuesdays and Wednesdays and dramatically shortened the season. Skyeship later went back to 7 days a week but not Pico.

[skiadikt]

another thaw. must be another holiday weekend. got old a long time ago. at least this wasn't a 9-day thaw. just a "brief" spike and we shouldn't lose any terrain. already below freezing and snowing. but just when conditions were improving, back to ice skates.

agree w k4m, back in the 50's/60's if this was the prevailing weather, there wouldn't be any eastern skiing as we know it. in those days snowmaking was just a supplement or used to expand the season.

[newpylong1]

I am blown away looking at some of my film prints from the early to mid-90s. Northeast Passage by the first of the year looks like was the norm, sometimes late December. Imagine that today? Hell no.

[rogman]

Nyberg didn't originate the "Killington is a church built for Easter Sunday" quote. I first heard it from Dave Rathbunn while ASC still owned Killington, and I doubt it started with him. Nyberg trying to close Skyeship two days a week was not a politically astute move, and not a chance in hell that it was going to stand. He had to know. No F's to give, I guess.

[skiadikt]

I am blown away looking at some of my film prints from the early to mid-90s. Northeast Passage by the first of the year looks like was the norm, sometimes late December. Imagine that today? Hell no.

things have "changed". obviously a lot is weather related. we got more nat snow back then. but also the snowmaking "commitment" has changed from the pres years. he was damn the torpedoes. even in asc's 1st season they continued it until the fan got clogged.

back then, they'd cover the NE passage route to rt 100, in addition to the steeper trails like judge and thunderball off mid-station. the fiddle, pipedream, dream HW, conclusion. they'd start making snow on OL from the middle and first cover skier's right. right now there are many trails that won't see a flake of MM. some of it may be because of the parks (not bashing) which use a tremendous amount of resources.

running out of digits. what's this thaw 8? 9? and sure we always had thaws but nothing like this. you could always count on a solid stretch of cold weather lasting weeks to a month or more. now we throw a parade if it's cold for 5 days.

[newpylong1]

We also have to keep in mind other snowmaking terrain was added that did not exist back then. Prior to the Ram's Head reconfiguration the only two trails there that had snowmaking were Header and Caper (both narrower then). Swirl and Timberline did not. Great Bear and Frolic on Snowdon did not either. Highline was narrower. Today's Upper East Fall did not. Gateway was shorter and narrower. The Stash did not exist. They stopped making snow on Pipe Dream in the 80s. Etc and so on.

The system has not grown to accommodate the increase in capacity needed for this additional acreage coupled with the shorter snowmaking hrs. Something has to give and that's the Fiddle, Conclusion, DM HW, Vertigo etc unfortunately.

[KingsFourMan]

As bad as it for the skiing, it's even worse for snowmobiling. As I mentioned in another thread, there is the cost of the sleds, maintenance on the sleds, insurance, registration, VAST stickers, snowmobile trailer, registration on the trailer, snowmobile clothing, helmets and for what, a 4-6 week season in which we get out maybe 5 or 6 times if we're lucky. This year probably a lot less than that. We want to get a couple more sleds so that we can ride with friends that come up but it's not worth all of the expense for what is now such a ridiculously short season.

I feel sorry for the tour operators and their guides, the Christmas/New Years holiday was a bust, and now MLK weekend is a bust. Those holidays are huge for them and it doesn't look to be improving any time soon.

[snoloco]

You know that last year and the year before we did not have a January thaw, right? It's weather and sometimes you get an awful season. Still not as bad as 15-16 yet.

It's true that 2020-2021 and 2021-2022 also had slow starts. But January in both of those years was about as consistent as it gets. Last year seemed worse than it really was because they only made snow on 2 trails at a time and it took forever to expand even with near perfect weather.

[KingsFourMan]

agree w k4m, back in the 50's/60's if this was the prevailing weather, there wouldn't be any eastern skiing as we know it. in those days snowmaking was just a supplement or used to expand the season.

Most New England ski resorts, including Killington, originally opened and operated for several years before snowmaking was ever installed. And as you mentioned, it was minimal for quite a while after it was first introduced. It was obviously a lot colder with a lot more natural snow and a lot less r*in back then otherwise people would not have been building ski resorts throughout New England. It simply would not have been viable under today's typical winter conditions.

[KingsFourMan]

You know that last year and the year before we did not have a January thaw, right? It's weather and sometimes you get an awful season. Still not as bad as 15-16 yet.

It's true that 2020-2021 and 2021-2022 also had slow starts. But January in both of those years was about as consistent as it gets. Last year seemed worse than it really was because they only made snow on 2 trails at a time and it took forever to expand even with near perfect weather.

Last year we had a lot a freeze/thaw cycles with heavy r*in too. We would get a decent snow and 2 or 3 days later it would piss down r*in. Seemed like that happened several times.

[iRock]

agree w k4m, back in the 50's/60's if this was the prevailing weather, there wouldn't be any eastern skiing as we know it. in those days snowmaking was just a supplement or used to expand the season.

Most New England ski resorts, including Killington, originally opened and operated for several years before snowmaking was ever installed. And as you mentioned, it was minimal for quite a while after it was first introduced. It was obviously a lot colder with a lot more natural snow and a lot less r*in back then otherwise people would not have been building ski resorts throughout New England. It simply would not have been viable under today's typical winter conditions.

Other factors at play too.

First, the number of people on a busy day measured in the hundreds not thousands.
Second, having no grooming certainly helped snow preservation.

Plenty of seasons ended in early April when the snow melted. Numerous seasons today when we're still skiing natural trails in mid-April.

It's fickle. Always has been.

[newpylong1]

As bad as it for the skiing, it's even worse for snowmobiling. As I mentioned in another thread, there is the cost of the sleds, maintenance on the sleds, insurance, registration, VAST stickers, snowmobile trailer, registration on the trailer, snowmobile clothing, helmets and for what, a 4-6 week season in which we get out maybe 5 or 6 times if we're lucky. This year probably a lot less than that. We want to get a couple more sleds so that we can ride with friends that come up but it's not worth all of the expense for what is now such a ridiculously short season.

I feel sorry for the tour operators and their guides, the Christmas/New Years holiday was a bust, and now MLK weekend is a bust. Those holidays are huge for them and it doesn't look to be improving any time soon.

I own 3 sleds and not only have I not registered any of them but I canceled the insurance policy that renews around 1/1 without batting an eye. If winter ever returns in full force I'll think about it. Until then I have 20+ acres plus a lake to ride on here. Sad indeed. I imagine many have done the same, so that is a ot of lost revenue for the clubs that work so hard to maintain the trail systems.