minivan

[shortski]

Dude--look at the new Audi Q7. It's all that AND a bag of high-tech chips.
I was pondering replacing one of the family vehicles with a minian, until I got a look at that. It ships in 60 days.

Nice vehicle but for Price as configured: $66,170 , holy crap! that's 8k more than I paid for the New Vet

http://www.audiusa.com/config_summary/0 ... 9_,00.html

[buzzkill]

Dude--look at the new Audi Q7. It's all that AND a bag of high-tech chips.
I was pondering replacing one of the family vehicles with a minian, until I got a look at that. It ships in 60 days.

Nice vehicle but for Price as configured: $66,170 , holy crap! that's 8k more than I paid for the New Vet

http://www.audiusa.com/config_summary/0 ... 9_,00.html

now here's a guy with some cohones.

[SnoAddict]

6'4", 220 lbs...

Everyday driver:

Porsche 996 (911) turbo, AWD, PASM, 6 speed, sunroof delete, modified to just under 500 bhp and 500 ft lb. Seats four. Has ski rack. Has been to K, Stowe plenty of times. I fit easily and can even carry a couple smaller teens in the back. 295/19 rear tires do tend to look like snowballs at times.

Ski car / lots of kids car:

Ford Excursion 7.3 liter Powerstroke diesel, modified. 15.7 mpg with large Thule box and power setting on "low" and intermittant 4WD use.

Wife car:

BMW 325xi, AWD, 5 speed, sport / lux package, four new Blizzaks, wears big Thule box. This thing is a tank and will plow through anything - more stable on all wintry conditions than the Excursion or anything else I've driven short of a Pinzgauer. Built better than Audi quattros I've owned.

Kids' cars:

Two 06 Acura RSX Type S, 6 speeds, not great in snow

Beaters:

Mercedes diesel wagon
Acura Integra

[TheRat]

We're on our 4th minivan. 84 Caravan, 90 Caravan, 97 Caravan, now 05 Sienna. Each passed down to our kids when we bought new one. We've gone cross country camping in them, hauled kids and dogs, filled them at various times with plywood, mulch and stonedust, moved the kids into many apartments, etc. The youngest lived in the 90 for a while in California. Now we can afford whatever we want, and we still went with a minivan, the Sienna for its versatility. The AWD made our decision. We keep the middle seats out all the time which makes it easy to throw in the two mountain bikes and provides plenty of room to change when skiing. The dog likes the 3rd row seat and if we're travelling, we can just fold it down, blow up the air mattress, and bed down anywhere. Heading for Florida for a month in May and will do some camping going and coming. And I never felt like a pussy for owning a minivan.

[Eski]

owned a grand voyager when raising kids, was the perfect vehicle for hauling teams/cargo and vacationing ... then moved onto a jimmy 4x4 for more camping/ski pleasures ... now own a f-150 4x4 for towing a trailer ... although I liked the maneuverability of a scaled down 4x4, I've really come to be comfortable in a full size rig, lots mo' power and only 1 less mpg difference ... pizza-pizza, you made a good choice for a family ride

[RJSVermont]

Keep buying those rice burners, guys, you're costing people
their jobs. Enjoy the ride.

http://www.billingsgazette.com/newdex.p ... .inc[/img]

This has been bugging me but I haven't had a chance to address it until now.

I think it's a little hypocritical to denounce imports from Japan. General Motors, unfortunately for you, has actually been pretty closely tied with Japanese automotive companies. They actually owe much of their success (Maybe I should actually call it non total failure) to the Japanese for their NUMMI venture in the 80’s and the Japanese teaching GM things like lean production. General Motors was notorious for doing stupid things like having 3 different colors of the same exact shock absorber with different part numbers for different vehicles, which equates to higher costs. If you ask me it’s not really the quality of the American parts and vehicles that is the problem. I’ve read many books on the American auto industry and it seems to me that their demise is actually management, a la Killington. Poor management just trickles down from product planning to design to production. Anyway, many small cars that have been in GM’s line are actually rebadged Toyota’s. The Geo Prism from the 90’s was in essence a Toyota Corolla, Japanese “Rice burning” engine and all. The Pontiac Vibe, although designed as a joint venture between Toyota and GM uses a purely Toyota 1.8L engine. Even their latest econobox the Chevy Aveo is actually based on a Korean vehicle. General Motors also uses engines and transmissions for some of their vehicles which are sourced from Japanese companies. Honda had a deal with GM to provide them with transmissions. When the GM V6 in the Saturn Vue was plagued with problems and poor reviews GM went out and struck a deal with Honda to use their 3.5L V6 from the Honda Pilot in the Saturn Vue. I once saw some idiot driving a Saturn Vue Redline with one of those lame stickers on the back window of a guy pissing on the word “imports” even though the engine in his car was made by Honda.

I personally refuse to support a company that produces mediocre products at best just on the basis of patriotism. I think people doing this are actually doing a disservice to these American companies because they have no incentive to actually improve their products and make them competitive in the world market. GM and Ford need to wake up and smell the coffee.

[buzzkill]

Keep buying those rice burners, guys, you're costing people
their jobs. Enjoy the ride.

http://www.billingsgazette.com/newdex.p ... .inc[/img]

This has been bugging me but I haven't had a chance to address it until now.

I think it's a little hypocritical to denounce imports from Japan. General Motors, unfortunately for you, has actually been pretty closely tied with Japanese automotive companies. They actually owe much of their success (Maybe I should actually call it non total failure) to the Japanese for their NUMMI venture in the 80’s and the Japanese teaching GM things like lean production. General Motors was notorious for doing stupid things like having 3 different colors of the same exact shock absorber with different part numbers for different vehicles, which equates to higher costs. If you ask me it’s not really the quality of the American parts and vehicles that is the problem. I’ve read many books on the American auto industry and it seems to me that their demise is actually management, a la Killington. Poor management just trickles down from product planning to design to production. Anyway, many small cars that have been in GM’s line are actually rebadged Toyota’s. The Geo Prism from the 90’s was in essence a Toyota Corolla, Japanese “Rice burning” engine and all. The Pontiac Vibe, although designed as a joint venture between Toyota and GM uses a purely Toyota 1.8L engine. Even their latest econobox the Chevy Aveo is actually based on a Korean vehicle. General Motors also uses engines and transmissions for some of their vehicles which are sourced from Japanese companies. Honda had a deal with GM to provide them with transmissions. When the GM V6 in the Saturn Vue was plagued with problems and poor reviews GM went out and struck a deal with Honda to use their 3.5L V6 from the Honda Pilot in the Saturn Vue. I once saw some idiot driving a Saturn Vue Redline with one of those lame stickers on the back window of a guy pissing on the word “imports” even though the engine in his car was made by Honda.

I personally refuse to support a company that produces mediocre products at best just on the basis of patriotism. I think people doing this are actually doing a disservice to these American companies because they have no incentive to actually improve their products and make them competitive in the world market. GM and Ford need to wake up and smell the coffee.

You're a little late to the party here, RJ, but since you've spent the better
part of week compiling this incomplete and largely specious diatribe,
I'll enlighten you with a reply.

First you omitted the initial joint venture with GM and Toyota, the late
eighties Nova and FX project. They were reported to be a success
by both companies, each learning from the other. The Nova was
the Corolla and the FX was basically another Toyota, designed in California and built entirely by American labor.
You draw some very broad conclusions on GM mangement and the
quality of product, based on what I detect as opinion more than actual professional expertise.
You cite "many books" read, and written by who, Ralph Nader?
Futhermore you have omitted the remaining points of the discussion thread which highlighted the overall contridictions of automotive manufacturing in relation to patriotism and concentrated on one initial statement. Do you need more time?
The rest of discussion, in case you missed it, was that I own a Japanese
truck, a Honda Passport, actually an Isuzu Rodeo rebadged by Honda,
built in Indiana with much of the parts manufactured in Mexico and abroad and purchased used. Yes, we are all aware of the blurring of lines
here. The bottom line was where the money is going after the final sale,
and more importantly what it is doing to the ever increasing US trade
deficit. I'm sure you have many more sources on that subject too,
most likely authored by Howard Dean.

[DMC Freeride]

Take it off any sweet jumps?

[RJSVermont]

Keep buying those rice burners, guys, you're costing people
their jobs. Enjoy the ride.

http://www.billingsgazette.com/newdex.p ... .inc[/img]

This has been bugging me but I haven't had a chance to address it until now.

I think it's a little hypocritical to denounce imports from Japan. General Motors, unfortunately for you, has actually been pretty closely tied with Japanese automotive companies. They actually owe much of their success (Maybe I should actually call it non total failure) to the Japanese for their NUMMI venture in the 80’s and the Japanese teaching GM things like lean production. General Motors was notorious for doing stupid things like having 3 different colors of the same exact shock absorber with different part numbers for different vehicles, which equates to higher costs. If you ask me it’s not really the quality of the American parts and vehicles that is the problem. I’ve read many books on the American auto industry and it seems to me that their demise is actually management, a la Killington. Poor management just trickles down from product planning to design to production. Anyway, many small cars that have been in GM’s line are actually rebadged Toyota’s. The Geo Prism from the 90’s was in essence a Toyota Corolla, Japanese “Rice burning” engine and all. The Pontiac Vibe, although designed as a joint venture between Toyota and GM uses a purely Toyota 1.8L engine. Even their latest econobox the Chevy Aveo is actually based on a Korean vehicle. General Motors also uses engines and transmissions for some of their vehicles which are sourced from Japanese companies. Honda had a deal with GM to provide them with transmissions. When the GM V6 in the Saturn Vue was plagued with problems and poor reviews GM went out and struck a deal with Honda to use their 3.5L V6 from the Honda Pilot in the Saturn Vue. I once saw some idiot driving a Saturn Vue Redline with one of those lame stickers on the back window of a guy pissing on the word “imports” even though the engine in his car was made by Honda.

I personally refuse to support a company that produces mediocre products at best just on the basis of patriotism. I think people doing this are actually doing a disservice to these American companies because they have no incentive to actually improve their products and make them competitive in the world market. GM and Ford need to wake up and smell the coffee.

You're a little late to the party here, RJ, but since you've spent the better
part of week compiling this incomplete and largely specious diatribe,
I'll enlighten you with a reply.

First you omitted the initial joint venture with GM and Toyota, the late
eighties Nova and FX project. They were reported to be a success
by both companies, each learning from the other. The Nova was
the Corolla and the FX was basically another Toyota, designed in California and built entirely by American labor.
You draw some very broad conclusions on GM mangement and the
quality of product, based on what I detect as opinion more than actual professional expertise.
You cite "many books" read, and written by who, Ralph Nader?
Futhermore you have omitted the remaining points of the discussion thread which highlighted the overall contridictions of automotive manufacturing in relation to patriotism and concentrated on one initial statement. Do you need more time?
The rest of discussion, in case you missed it, was that I own a Japanese
truck, a Honda Passport, actually an Isuzu Rodeo rebadged by Honda,
built in Indiana with much of the parts manufactured in Mexico and abroad and purchased used. Yes, we are all aware of the blurring of lines
here. The bottom line was where the money is going after the final sale,
and more importantly what it is doing to the ever increasing US trade
deficit. I'm sure you have many more sources on that subject too,
most likely authored by Howard Dean.

Buzz, my opinion was pretty clear, but I'm pretty confident in my factual knowledge regarding the auto industry. Thanks for trying to "enlighten" me though, even if it was a miserably failed attempt. I clearly stated that I wanted to respond to your earlier post although I was late to the game. Thank you anyway for reiterating that captain obvious. If you knew about NUMMI you would know that the Nova was one of the products of that specific venture between GM and Toyota, I did not know that I had to specify every little detail for you on a chat forum. If you honestly think Toyota took anything from GM from an engineering standpoint you're misinformed. Toyota at the time was paying very high taxes on their vehicles which were being built in and shipped from Japan. They're M.O. was more to get acquainted with American factories and workers in order to open their own successful factories in the United States. GM simply needed to learn how to design and build small cars that could compete with the Japanese vehicles, so yes it was a symbiotic relationship between the two.

As for your Rode-port I’m sorry you were one of the poor uninformed consumers who purchased a re-badged Isuzu Rodeo new or used, an SUV that did nothing great and hardly anything good. Honda was late to the SUV game and knew that even a mediocre (At best) re-badged SUV was better than nothing at all. If you would have read my final statement before getting your panties all bunched up you would have understood my stance on domestic auto manufacturers. I come from a family that was devoted to American autos and I put myself through college turning a wrench for a Jeep/Hyundai/Mitsubishi dealership. Now, after countless years of expensive repair bills, and throw away American junk cars there is not one domestic vehicle in my family. My parents couldn't be happier, especially my Vietnam veteran father who praises his Honda Pilot and me for recommending it to him over a Chevy Trailblazer.

As for your comment about the trade deficit, well I guess you go out of your way to make sure you never purchase anything made outside of the USA. If we take a stroll through your house will we see anything "made in China"? If so you're a hypocrite.

Also, don’t assume about the books I’ve read, or who wrote them. Just because you’re old enough to know who Ralph Nader is doesn’t mean you can go around ass-uming and throwing his name around.

I'm sure this post will invoke some kind of super witty response from you, looking forward to reading it.

Good day sir.

[buzzkill]

Keep buying those rice burners, guys, you're costing people
their jobs. Enjoy the ride.

http://www.billingsgazette.com/newdex.p ... .inc[/img]

This has been bugging me but I haven't had a chance to address it until now.

I think it's a little hypocritical to denounce imports from Japan. General Motors, unfortunately for you, has actually been pretty closely tied with Japanese automotive companies. They actually owe much of their success (Maybe I should actually call it non total failure) to the Japanese for their NUMMI venture in the 80’s and the Japanese teaching GM things like lean production. General Motors was notorious for doing stupid things like having 3 different colors of the same exact shock absorber with different part numbers for different vehicles, which equates to higher costs. If you ask me it’s not really the quality of the American parts and vehicles that is the problem. I’ve read many books on the American auto industry and it seems to me that their demise is actually management, a la Killington. Poor management just trickles down from product planning to design to production. Anyway, many small cars that have been in GM’s line are actually rebadged Toyota’s. The Geo Prism from the 90’s was in essence a Toyota Corolla, Japanese “Rice burning” engine and all. The Pontiac Vibe, although designed as a joint venture between Toyota and GM uses a purely Toyota 1.8L engine. Even their latest econobox the Chevy Aveo is actually based on a Korean vehicle. General Motors also uses engines and transmissions for some of their vehicles which are sourced from Japanese companies. Honda had a deal with GM to provide them with transmissions. When the GM V6 in the Saturn Vue was plagued with problems and poor reviews GM went out and struck a deal with Honda to use their 3.5L V6 from the Honda Pilot in the Saturn Vue. I once saw some idiot driving a Saturn Vue Redline with one of those lame stickers on the back window of a guy pissing on the word “imports” even though the engine in his car was made by Honda.

I personally refuse to support a company that produces mediocre products at best just on the basis of patriotism. I think people doing this are actually doing a disservice to these American companies because they have no incentive to actually improve their products and make them competitive in the world market. GM and Ford need to wake up and smell the coffee.

You're a little late to the party here, RJ, but since you've spent the better
part of week compiling this incomplete and largely specious diatribe,
I'll enlighten you with a reply.

First you omitted the initial joint venture with GM and Toyota, the late
eighties Nova and FX project. They were reported to be a success
by both companies, each learning from the other. The Nova was
the Corolla and the FX was basically another Toyota, designed in California and built entirely by American labor.
You draw some very broad conclusions on GM mangement and the
quality of product, based on what I detect as opinion more than actual professional expertise.
You cite "many books" read, and written by who, Ralph Nader?
Futhermore you have omitted the remaining points of the discussion thread which highlighted the overall contridictions of automotive manufacturing in relation to patriotism and concentrated on one initial statement. Do you need more time?
The rest of discussion, in case you missed it, was that I own a Japanese
truck, a Honda Passport, actually an Isuzu Rodeo rebadged by Honda,
built in Indiana with much of the parts manufactured in Mexico and abroad and purchased used. Yes, we are all aware of the blurring of lines
here. The bottom line was where the money is going after the final sale,
and more importantly what it is doing to the ever increasing US trade
deficit. I'm sure you have many more sources on that subject too,
most likely authored by Howard Dean.

Buzz, my opinion was pretty clear, but I'm pretty confident in my factual knowledge regarding the auto industry. Thanks for trying to "enlighten" me though, even if it was a miserably failed attempt. I clearly stated that I wanted to respond to your earlier post although I was late to the game. Thank you anyway for reiterating that captain obvious. If you knew about NUMMI you would know that the Nova was one of the products of that specific venture between GM and Toyota, I did not know that I had to specify every little detail for you on a chat forum. If you honestly think Toyota took anything from GM from an engineering standpoint you're misinformed. Toyota at the time was paying very high taxes on their vehicles which were being built in and shipped from Japan. They're M.O. was more to get acquainted with American factories and workers in order to open their own successful factories in the United States. GM simply needed to learn how to design and build small cars that could compete with the Japanese vehicles, so yes it was a symbiotic relationship between the two.

As for your Rode-port I’m sorry you were one of the poor uninformed consumers who purchased a re-badged Isuzu Rodeo new or used, an SUV that did nothing great and hardly anything good. Honda was late to the SUV game and knew that even a mediocre (At best) re-badged SUV was better than nothing at all. If you would have read my final statement before getting your panties all bunched up you would have understood my stance on domestic auto manufacturers. I come from a family that was devoted to American autos and I put myself through college turning a wrench for a Jeep/Hyundai/Mitsubishi dealership. Now, after countless years of expensive repair bills, and throw away American junk cars there is not one domestic vehicle in my family. My parents couldn't be happier, especially my Vietnam veteran father who praises his Honda Pilot and me for recommending it to him over a Chevy Trailblazer.

As for your comment about the trade deficit, well I guess you go out of your way to make sure you never purchase anything made outside of the USA. If we take a stroll through your house will we see anything "made in China"? If so you're a hypocrite.

Also, don’t assume about the books I’ve read, or who wrote them. Just because you’re old enough to know who Ralph Nader is doesn’t mean you can go around ass-uming and throwing his name around.

I'm sure this post will invoke some kind of super witty response from you, looking forward to reading it.

Good day sir.

OK kid, you win. You rotated tires and swept up the kitty litter at a Jeep dealership for a few summers, who
am I to argue with your automotive expertise. My 35 years of rebuilding cars can't come close to that.

FYI, the Passport is running great, 100k+, because it's maintained. So was it's predecessor, the Chevy Blazer
with 250k+ which at 12 y.o. was sold for $1600.

As far as panties in a bunch, I'm not the one getting hysterical here and resorting to name calling.
What are you going to do next, hit me with your purse?

This discussion in general was boring to begin with and out of place on a ski resort thread. The curious
item is your source of vitriol. Is it the patriotism bit? Quite a lot of cursing and anger over a bumper
sticker showing a little nationalism. What's bugging you kid anyway? Was there a flag on that bumper sticker?
Is that what's getting up your butt, people who still try to have some pride in their country? You wouldn't
be one of those lefties would you, the one's who feel contempt for the US's wealth and power and who love
to take any chance possible to piss on the flag? You sure sound like one, going to the name calling
as soon as someone dares to dispute your hallowed views? Are we getting close yet RJ?

You need to kick back kid, relax, you take everything too seriously. Why don't you put on the TV.
Check out the game. Bruins on tonight? Looked good last night taking a pounding by the Rangers.

[johnny the jibber]

simma down na, were talking about minivans here. also the bruins and the rangers both suck...

[buzzkill]

simma down na, were talking about minivans here. also the bruins and the rangers both suck...

Well, I'd say you're half right, the former half. :)

What is going on tonight, full moon? You'd think it was r*ining or
something, even AZ's po'd.

[johnny the jibber]

yeah, im bored, home from work a while ago. all this minivan talk is bringing me down, gonna head to the outback to see the idiots as they will make me happy. peace...

[Steve]

gotta tell ya..

The minivan was great to have this past weekend at kmart.
alex and the baby watched DVDs the whole time.. made the
trip a lot shorter for them.

[Ski-N-Sail]

You had another kid? When?