Hells yeah! Studs as long as the last joint of my pinky.SkiDork wrote:studded?Keithus wrote:Subaru Baja + Hakkas = No worries at all on or in snow.
I don't take the car on parkways during ski season.
AWD-your thoughts?
Moderators: SkiDork, spanky, Bubba
AWD Vibe kicks my 4X4 Jimmy's arse in the snow. Better handling, better stopping, even plowed through almost 2' of snow during the NJ blizzard a few years ago. Who said ground clearance was an issue???
Too bad Pontiac discontinued the AWD model this year, it was a winner in my eyes....
B)
Too bad Pontiac discontinued the AWD model this year, it was a winner in my eyes....
B)
Mmmmmm, sidecountry....
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SKIQUATTRO
- Beginner On Rentals
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its all about the tires (no matter if you have awd/4x4) without proper tires for the conditions, its useless....would you run a marathon in flip flops??? I have Audi Quattro and a 4x4 (Nissan Armada) I have sets of winter tires for both...the tires grip the pavement, not the system
updownupdownupdownupdown
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Stormchaser
- Level 10K poster
- Posts: 14087
- Joined: Nov 4th, '04, 22:32
- Location: Hot tub
cant help you slow down....
How come nobody hates on the RWD idiots who get stuck at stoplights or in parking lots or anywhere in the snow bloking basic traffic? They have the wrong tires, wrong driving skills, possibly the wrong car and are as prevalant as SUV drivers that are off the road..... Because we feel like it isn't their fault since they are ill equipped but when it comes to an AWD/4WD in the same situation we get after them since they have the tools and still screwed it up?
1. Ground Clearance is for trucks- If you want to clear boulders buy a truck. If you want to turn your car on in your driveway with headlight deep snow and power it through the plow berm buy an AWD car. Preferably Audi or Subaru since they have the best AWD. I can take my S4 through headlight deep snow and easily through the plow berm (unless it is set up and frozen like a rock, in which cace any vehicle that doesnt require a side step is screwed. I took a Subaru outback to the MTN on Sunday and I was getting face shots of snow over the hood out in Robinwod due to the drifts on the unplowed roads.
2. It is the tires that decide. My Audi is crap with my Z rated tires in the snow. When I put on my snows I promise you I could drive up and down most blues at Kton. I had a RWD BMW in Colorado wth studded snows. The car was incredible in the snow. (BMW typically has 50/50 weight distribution between front and rear, most American cars are front loaded) I've never looked into SUV weight distribution.
3. AWD WILL help you drive out of a skid. Learn how to use it. Go to an Auto-Cross event and test yourself and your car under duress. Ever seen a rally race? They wanted to ban Audi since it gave them such an advantage. Those guys are in a full skid the whole time but because they have quattro they can manipulate the throttle to determine how much drift they allow from the apex of the turn. It takes driving experience to learn how to use AWD vs. RWD. With RWD, if your rear wheels are sliding you have two options, steer into/out with no acceleration or brake, acceleration is an option but not a good one. If in an AWD you are sliding you have three options steer out without acceleration, brake, or steer into/out it using throttle to save yourself. Practice it. Try it in the r*in, take a hard corner under acceleration in your RWD and see what happens. Rear end breakes free. Do the same in the awd and see what happens rear end may get a little loose but front end also is still pulling the car thorugh the turn, even with a full traction break (idiot speed) the AWD car will still track tighter in the turn.
4. Morons dont understand that AWD/4WD make you accelerate faster but all moving objects must decelerate and still carry the same intertia. 4wd wont help slow you down. Good brakes and tires and a smart operstors have mpore to do with deceleration than any drivetrain. In some cases people who hammer a downshift will screw themselves with awd/4wd because they have slowed their wheels beyond the traction of the road resulting in skid that they don't understand how to control. At least the same idiot in RWD might have a chance since only the rear wheels are sliding and steering is unaffected. FWD drivers who downshift at a speed to great for the road are immediate accident material as their steering will diminish as soon as the wheels break traction.
5. AWD doesnt make it easy. It took me 9 hours from Newton, Mass to Kton on Friday because of the traffic and the roads. When the Subaru had 2 people in it it drove great. When I added 3 others @ 200+ pounds each (1 300 pounder) and their gear it was a different story. One would think added weight would help traction but in this case it hurt it dramatically. Why, because an extra 1000 pounds really hampered the suspension. With that extra weight in the car any shift of momentum ) a slight turn) or weight to either side would cause the car to want to skid badly. The challenge in the drive was keeping the weight centered over the weels. (Think Jenga, weight up high makes it sway) SUV owners should consider how much they are loading down their cars on the way up also. An extra 1200 pounds up high might seem a good thing for traction but if it is icy it might hurt.
A human emotion-
Lets be real here. We all enjoy seeing awd/fwd drivers off the road because we feel like they must be idiots. HA look at their misfortune. "I am such a better driver that even without AWD I can drive in this snow. " In reality anything on wheels and moving at speed in snow has a good shot of going off the road. Most often it is the driver who makes too sudden of a move. AWD is a safety net for a driver who needs to correct a mistake but only if they know how to drive.
AWD/4WD/RWD are all succeptible to idiot driver input but I am willing to take my chances with AWD. If I didnt have AWD I probably wouldnt have hit the road friday night because I would have been stuck at an uphill stoplight outside my office. The same is tru eof most of the csr son the road that night. BMWS and Corvettes didn't make the trip. Those that did probably got stuck when they stopped for gas or tried to drive up an offramp.
If anyone wants to get into an AutoCross event in May shoot me a message.
1. Ground Clearance is for trucks- If you want to clear boulders buy a truck. If you want to turn your car on in your driveway with headlight deep snow and power it through the plow berm buy an AWD car. Preferably Audi or Subaru since they have the best AWD. I can take my S4 through headlight deep snow and easily through the plow berm (unless it is set up and frozen like a rock, in which cace any vehicle that doesnt require a side step is screwed. I took a Subaru outback to the MTN on Sunday and I was getting face shots of snow over the hood out in Robinwod due to the drifts on the unplowed roads.
2. It is the tires that decide. My Audi is crap with my Z rated tires in the snow. When I put on my snows I promise you I could drive up and down most blues at Kton. I had a RWD BMW in Colorado wth studded snows. The car was incredible in the snow. (BMW typically has 50/50 weight distribution between front and rear, most American cars are front loaded) I've never looked into SUV weight distribution.
3. AWD WILL help you drive out of a skid. Learn how to use it. Go to an Auto-Cross event and test yourself and your car under duress. Ever seen a rally race? They wanted to ban Audi since it gave them such an advantage. Those guys are in a full skid the whole time but because they have quattro they can manipulate the throttle to determine how much drift they allow from the apex of the turn. It takes driving experience to learn how to use AWD vs. RWD. With RWD, if your rear wheels are sliding you have two options, steer into/out with no acceleration or brake, acceleration is an option but not a good one. If in an AWD you are sliding you have three options steer out without acceleration, brake, or steer into/out it using throttle to save yourself. Practice it. Try it in the r*in, take a hard corner under acceleration in your RWD and see what happens. Rear end breakes free. Do the same in the awd and see what happens rear end may get a little loose but front end also is still pulling the car thorugh the turn, even with a full traction break (idiot speed) the AWD car will still track tighter in the turn.
4. Morons dont understand that AWD/4WD make you accelerate faster but all moving objects must decelerate and still carry the same intertia. 4wd wont help slow you down. Good brakes and tires and a smart operstors have mpore to do with deceleration than any drivetrain. In some cases people who hammer a downshift will screw themselves with awd/4wd because they have slowed their wheels beyond the traction of the road resulting in skid that they don't understand how to control. At least the same idiot in RWD might have a chance since only the rear wheels are sliding and steering is unaffected. FWD drivers who downshift at a speed to great for the road are immediate accident material as their steering will diminish as soon as the wheels break traction.
5. AWD doesnt make it easy. It took me 9 hours from Newton, Mass to Kton on Friday because of the traffic and the roads. When the Subaru had 2 people in it it drove great. When I added 3 others @ 200+ pounds each (1 300 pounder) and their gear it was a different story. One would think added weight would help traction but in this case it hurt it dramatically. Why, because an extra 1000 pounds really hampered the suspension. With that extra weight in the car any shift of momentum ) a slight turn) or weight to either side would cause the car to want to skid badly. The challenge in the drive was keeping the weight centered over the weels. (Think Jenga, weight up high makes it sway) SUV owners should consider how much they are loading down their cars on the way up also. An extra 1200 pounds up high might seem a good thing for traction but if it is icy it might hurt.
A human emotion-
Lets be real here. We all enjoy seeing awd/fwd drivers off the road because we feel like they must be idiots. HA look at their misfortune. "I am such a better driver that even without AWD I can drive in this snow. " In reality anything on wheels and moving at speed in snow has a good shot of going off the road. Most often it is the driver who makes too sudden of a move. AWD is a safety net for a driver who needs to correct a mistake but only if they know how to drive.
AWD/4WD/RWD are all succeptible to idiot driver input but I am willing to take my chances with AWD. If I didnt have AWD I probably wouldnt have hit the road friday night because I would have been stuck at an uphill stoplight outside my office. The same is tru eof most of the csr son the road that night. BMWS and Corvettes didn't make the trip. Those that did probably got stuck when they stopped for gas or tried to drive up an offramp.
If anyone wants to get into an AutoCross event in May shoot me a message.
Last edited by maskinut on Mar 21st, '07, 09:02, edited 1 time in total.
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XtremeJibber2001
- Signature Poster
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AWD donuts
are just as much fun but they are typically a lot smaller. You can actually rotate in a circle with AWD if you get a good donut going in the snow. The car rotates on center much more than AWD which will rotate mosty around the front wheels. I know you can do it :)
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yemntftb
- Blue Chatterbox
- Posts: 134
- Joined: Feb 25th, '07, 01:23
- Location: Saratoga Springs/Bville NJ
No snows? My car isn't great on wet/slush when I have all seasons on, get into a spin and forget about correcting it - gets out of pretty much anything though evenwithout the snow and just the 2 rear tires on the ground. Couple weeks ago I had a run in with a big snowbank and a pretty good sized curb - went into the bank atleast 6-7 feet, just rear tires on the ground, everything else suspended in the snow - reversed out no problem. I thought I was goign to have to call the cops.KMartman wrote:Slid an A4 right off the road on 81 in NYS outside syracuse......yemntftb wrote:quattro + snows = no slide
It drove right out, but still slid right off the highway...nothing like looking back at oncoming traffic while you spin...
M
interesting commentary
good input...some rather amusing 
yep. did love my studded nokians-but they left with the old car.
We used to pass out all varieties on the way to VT well b-4 any of us knew about nokians/hakkas.
I made it VT for the best day in years, but only after I dug my car out, only to find it drove like an out of balance washing machine-like the time we got towed up a mud road in VT and all the mud and rocks immediately turned to concrete in the wheels, for a most pleasurable 3 hr ride home
.
Decided to abuse it down some side roads and a parking lot. No tire bubbles-no hanging foreign metal pieces draggin-so tried again and made it. Must have shaken off some frozen crud, as I still have my fillings in my teeth:) well worth the journey!!
yep. did love my studded nokians-but they left with the old car.
We used to pass out all varieties on the way to VT well b-4 any of us knew about nokians/hakkas.
I made it VT for the best day in years, but only after I dug my car out, only to find it drove like an out of balance washing machine-like the time we got towed up a mud road in VT and all the mud and rocks immediately turned to concrete in the wheels, for a most pleasurable 3 hr ride home
.Decided to abuse it down some side roads and a parking lot. No tire bubbles-no hanging foreign metal pieces draggin-so tried again and made it. Must have shaken off some frozen crud, as I still have my fillings in my teeth:) well worth the journey!!