K Corp. Bonds called on may 10th at Par!

[skibags]

My wife ( who also is my FA w/ Smith Barney) called to say that Killington has notified my pension adminstrators ( SB) that my corporate debenture from Killington ( Bond) has been called. My Bond due in 2013 and paying 8% will be paid off on May 10th 2007 at par ( $5000 ). par means face value. I for one am very happy to be clear of ASC. I bought this bond in 1988, recvd a 10 yr ski pass ( which expired in 1998) and 8% interest. It was my second bond. I had a 20 yr bond in 1980, which had I think 12 yrs skiing. I sold the ski pass privledges in 88 when I bought the second
and recvd back the $3000 in 2000. Not a bad investment over the years. Anyone else get notified. Again this is the bond portion not the pass portion of these investments that have been called

[Highway Star]

My wife ( who also is my FA w/ Smith Barney) called to say that Killington has notified my pension adminstrators ( SB) that my corporate debenture from Killington ( Bond) has been called. My Bond due in 2013 and paying 8% will be paid off on May 10th 2007 at par ( $5000 ). par means face value. I for one am very happy to be clear of ASC. I bought this bond in 1988, recvd a 10 yr ski pass ( which expired in 1998) and 8% interest. It was my second bond. I had a 20 yr bond in 1980, which had I think 12 yrs skiing. I sold the ski pass privledges in 88 when I bought the second
and recvd back the $3000 in 2000. Not a bad investment over the years. Anyone else get notified. Again this is the bond portion not the pass portion of these investments that have been called

I heard this on the Gondi from someone one or two weekends ago. Interesting. Perhaps that is part of the debt SP Land is paying off as part of the sale?

[NECskibum]

My father got the same letter, just face value, no more interest.

[G-smashed]

My wife ( who also is my FA w/ Smith Barney) called to say that Killington has notified my pension adminstrators ( SB) that my corporate debenture from Killington ( Bond) has been called. My Bond due in 2013 and paying 8% will be paid off on May 10th 2007 at par ( $5000 ). par means face value. I for one am very happy to be clear of ASC. I bought this bond in 1988, recvd a 10 yr ski pass ( which expired in 1998) and 8% interest. It was my second bond. I had a 20 yr bond in 1980, which had I think 12 yrs skiing. I sold the ski pass privledges in 88 when I bought the second
and recvd back the $3000 in 2000. Not a bad investment over the years. Anyone else get notified. Again this is the bond portion not the pass portion of these investments that have been called

I heard this on the Gondi from someone one or two weekends ago. Interesting. Perhaps that is part of the debt SP Land is paying off as part of the sale?

f*** off! Nobody cares what you think asshole!

[Highway Star]

My wife ( who also is my FA w/ Smith Barney) called to say that Killington has notified my pension adminstrators ( SB) that my corporate debenture from Killington ( Bond) has been called. My Bond due in 2013 and paying 8% will be paid off on May 10th 2007 at par ( $5000 ). par means face value. I for one am very happy to be clear of ASC. I bought this bond in 1988, recvd a 10 yr ski pass ( which expired in 1998) and 8% interest. It was my second bond. I had a 20 yr bond in 1980, which had I think 12 yrs skiing. I sold the ski pass privledges in 88 when I bought the second
and recvd back the $3000 in 2000. Not a bad investment over the years. Anyone else get notified. Again this is the bond portion not the pass portion of these investments that have been called

I heard this on the Gondi from someone one or two weekends ago. Interesting. Perhaps that is part of the debt SP Land is paying off as part of the sale?

f*** off! Nobody cares what you think asshole!

[HelmetCam]

I can understand being happy to be clear of ASC but now that they've been bought by a deeper pocket I think I'd rather keep an 8% paying bond than be called. Not that you have a choice.

If they are calling the 8% bonds that means they've already paid off the higher cost debt? I wonder what rate E2M / SP Land is being funded at and from whom. I wouldn't be surprised in two years to hear that SP Land had folded and our new corporate overlords are Goldman Sachs.

Make no mistake about this: private equity firms like Oak Hill (before) and SP Land / E2M (now) are in this as an investment. They bought it cheap, will put a little money in and CUT COSTS and then look to resell it.

I'm not optimistic about a village development anytime soon. We'll be lucky to get some lift upgrades.

I hope I'm wrong.

[Highway Star]

I can understand being happy to be clear of ASC but now that they've been bought by a deeper pocket I think I'd rather keep an 8% paying bond than be called. Not that you have a choice.

If they are calling the 8% bonds that means they've already paid off the higher cost debt? I wonder what rate E2M / SP Land is being funded at and from whom. I wouldn't be surprised in two years to hear that SP Land had folded and our new corporate overlords are Goldman Sachs.

Make no mistake about this: private equity firms like Oak Hill (before) and SP Land / E2M (now) are in this as an investment. They bought it cheap, will put a little money in and CUT COSTS and then look to resell it.

I'm not optimistic about a village development anytime soon. We'll be lucky to get some lift upgrades.

I hope I'm wrong.

Have you read the E2M website? While it's certainly possible that your senario could come true, I get the impression that these guys are serious players backed by some big Texas oil money. They aren't slumlords or bottom feeders.

While they could make minimal investment, cut costs, and still turn a decent profit.....that's not going to maximise profits, increase the value of the resort and increase property values. These guys have the money to do it right, they have the land, and they have the ski area........I think they are going to build the hell out of it and make a huge profit over the next 10 years.

Look at how much $$$ they have in so far. Killington IS profitable as a business already, and especially without any debt. If they put $50+ million (obtained at a low interest rate) into the mountain in the next 5 years, they will see major increases in skier visits and income, and a quite reasonable ROI. Since they also own all the undeveloped land, they will reap huge increases in property values as they develop the land and sell it off, or keep it as premium rental property as part of the Killington business.

There is big, big money to be made, and Texan's know how to make it......

[XtremeJibber2001]

Two questions ...

I get the impression that these guys are serious players backed by some big Texas oil money.

What gives you the impression that they're backed by big oil or "oil money" as you put it?

While they could make minimal investment, cut costs, and still turn a decent profit.....that's not going to maximise profits, increase the value of the resort and increase property values.

What makes you think they're in this for value over the long-term rather then short-term profitability and then resell? Or is this just your guess?

[Vinny Vincenzo]

Source: SEC Filing 2/23/2007

HTML

PDF

[Highway Star]

Two questions ...

I get the impression that these guys are serious players backed by some big Texas oil money.

What gives you the impression that they're backed by big oil or "oil money" as you put it?

While they could make minimal investment, cut costs, and still turn a decent profit.....that's not going to maximise profits, increase the value of the resort and increase property values.

What makes you think they're in this for value over the long-term rather then short-term profitability and then resell? Or is this just your guess?

Well, first of all, have you read the E2M website? That would be a good start.....it's been updated in the last few months, btw:

http://www.e2mpartners.com/

While they could be lieing their asses off, it certainly sounds like they know what they are doing and are typically in development projects for the long haul.

http://www.e2mpartners.com/investmentPhilosophy.html
http://www.e2mpartners.com/mgmtPrinciples.html
http://www.e2mpartners.com/investmentStrategy.html

It sounds like the situation they are getting into at Killington is clearly a result of the above principals and strategies.

As far a oil money goes......where do you think they are making the big money in texas.....from selling sand?!?! Of course these guys are going to have a large amount of investment from from local oil companies large and small, and individuals that made money in oil. Considering that there have been record profits in the last few years, and oil prices can't stay high forever, I'm sure many of these people are looking for diverse investments.......an industry on the other side of the country, that is more profitable when energy prices are low, seems like a pretty good idea.

[XtremeJibber2001]

Well, first of all, have you read the E2M website? That would be a good start.....it's been updated in the last few months, btw:

http://www.e2mpartners.com/

While they could be lieing their asses off, it certainly sounds like they know what they are doing and are typically in development projects for the long haul.

http://www.e2mpartners.com/investmentPhilosophy.html
http://www.e2mpartners.com/mgmtPrinciples.html
http://www.e2mpartners.com/investmentStrategy.html

Yes, I have. While their website looks great, it doesn't say anything about long-term gains. From their portfolio, they build real estate, sell it, then they're out. That doesn't mean your wrong or I'm right. However, using their past portfolios as a reference, it looks like they're more inclined to build the real estate around Killington. What amount of money POWDR gets or doesn't get is really what will tell us what will happen on the mountain because clearly, E2M is strictly Real Estate.

It sounds like the situation they are getting into at Killington is clearly a result of the above principals and strategies.

Of course it is, but nothing on their site or given their track record indicates they're interested in long-term wealth/profit building ventures.

As far a oil money goes......where do you think they are making the big money in texas.....from selling sand?!?! Of course these guys are going to have a large amount of investment from from local oil companies large and small, and individuals that made money in oil. Considering that there have been record profits in the last few years, and oil prices can't stay high forever, I'm sure many of these people are looking for diverse investments.......an industry on the other side of the country, that is more profitable when energy prices are low, seems like a pretty good idea.

Huh? These guys haven't even dabbled in oil as a firm. Unless you have information about the partners in the firm, I have no idea what you're talking about. This company makes money through Real Estate, not sure where oil comes in?

[Highway Star]

Well, first of all, have you read the E2M website? That would be a good start.....it's been updated in the last few months, btw:

http://www.e2mpartners.com/

While they could be lieing their asses off, it certainly sounds like they know what they are doing and are typically in development projects for the long haul.

http://www.e2mpartners.com/investmentPhilosophy.html
http://www.e2mpartners.com/mgmtPrinciples.html
http://www.e2mpartners.com/investmentStrategy.html

Yes, I have. While their website looks great, it doesn't say anything about long-term gains. From their portfolio, they build real estate, sell it, then they're out. That doesn't mean your wrong or I'm right. However, using their past portfolios as a reference, it looks like they're more inclined to build the real estate around Killington. What amount of money POWDR gets or doesn't get is really what will tell us what will happen on the mountain because clearly, E2M is strictly Real Estate.

It sounds like the situation they are getting into at Killington is clearly a result of the above principals and strategies.

Of course it is, but nothing on their site or given their track record indicates they're interested in long-term wealth/profit building ventures.

As far a oil money goes......where do you think they are making the big money in texas.....from selling sand?!?! Of course these guys are going to have a large amount of investment from from local oil companies large and small, and individuals that made money in oil. Considering that there have been record profits in the last few years, and oil prices can't stay high forever, I'm sure many of these people are looking for diverse investments.......an industry on the other side of the country, that is more profitable when energy prices are low, seems like a pretty good idea.

Huh? These guys haven't even dabbled in oil as a firm. Unless you have information about the partners in the firm, I have no idea what you're talking about. This company makes money through Real Estate, not sure where oil comes in?

Oil MONEY......what don't you get? This is a real estate company/fund, of course. But a large majority of the money being invested in it probably comes from large and small oil companies, or investors that made money in the oil industry. This is texas, afterall.

I have no doubt that Killington may be sold to another investor at a massive profit after 5-10 years of growth and development.....that's what this company does - develop anchored real estate, and they control the anchor through a contractor. They state right there in the strategy that they tie/align the anchor to the real estate, and the managment of the anchor has an stake in the success of the whole project. In all cases, the anchor is invested in and improved. In this case, Killington is the anchor, and it needs to be developed along with the real estate. Pretty simple.

I suggest you go back and read the website again, more carefully. The portfolio too. They are taking on major, multi-faceted developments which include retail and other attractions. They farm out the management of those attractions to qualified companies like POWDR. They aren't going to stick around to run Killington long term, but they sure as hell are going to make it very attractive for someone to purchase it from them someday.

[millerm277]

@HS, what your saying does make sense...and could bode well for us, at least for a while...

Screwing up the mountain isn't going to earn them much ROI...so...

I'll be an optimist, and say...

POWDR knows how to run a ski area, and they should run it well, and S.P Land will take whatever recommendations they make, and put the money in to make all the upgrades and other changes that have been needed for so long.

[Highway Star]

@HS, what your saying does make sense...and could bode well for us, at least for a while...

Screwing up the mountain isn't going to earn them much ROI...so...

I'll be an optimist, and say...

POWDR knows how to run a ski area, and they should run it well, and S.P Land will take whatever recommendations they make, and put the money in to make all the upgrades and other changes that have been needed for so long.

Well, as you said, it's extremely clear that Killington will be seeing major investment.

However, my major concern is that the mountain development will be mainly geared towards providing an optimized anchor for the real estate. While POWDR may know how to manage a ski resort, they might not know how to create a place that serious eastern skiers want to ski at, and SP Land probably doesn't either. I would really hate to see them neuter the mountain and turn it into a larger version of Okemo.

Killington has enough terrain and space to appeal to all skiers, and I hope they continue to do so, and do it better. Neglecting experts is not the right way to go......I really, really hope the new owners are able to understand that. Sure, some of the people buying real estate are very recreational, but there's also a large segment that wants to be challegned by the mountain. Just because you can afford to buy a condo, doesn't mean you don't know how to ski and want sanitized "mcskiing".

[Mister Moose]

Before you wax on about your analysis of E2M's website any further, remember it is essentially a 4 color brochure. It is what they want you to see/read. It isn't meant to inform ski enthusiasts on the next aquisition strategy, it is meant to entice investors and give credibility to the firm. You have to dig deeper than that to get any real insight to all the hypotheticals being floated here.

You are reading their "snow report" of "packed powder", and believing it.

Ignoring the fundementals and drinking the koolaid always gets you into trouble.