"length of the season...not driver of our brand"--

[SkiDork]

I guess the info before that was just rumor. Thanks for the search.

[shizzle]

The bright side is it's less than 30 days until opening!

[the Disemboweler]

Killington has a strong brand based on the size of the resort, its diverse terrain, awesome snowmaking firepower, the variety of entertainment found both on and off the slopes, a multitude of dining and lodging options, and in general the high energy atmosphere found here as a result of the guests we host. The length of the season and the operating schedules for lodges are not drivers of our brand position or financial success.

I do not find his view encouraging...

I think he'll find that his long time repeat customer base thinks differently. A bunch of his season pass base that is the strength of the business is going to vanish after this year. The residents of the town and the access road businesses are the ones who will feel the pain since those season pass people are the ones spending money in November and April. There is no way the town will let them build anything when businesses on the Access Road are failing because of these bone heads. The Killington midwinter product has always sucked. There is no way these tools are going to be able to fix that. You can't re-cut the trail pods and you can't stop the A-hole New Yorkers and Bostonians from being inconsiderate barbarians. By killing off early and late skiing, he's pushing the advanced skier base away to other resorts that offer a longer season. They're not going to sell trophy homes to families with a bunch of novices because that kind of customer will never pick Killington no matter how much lipstick they put on the pig.

If they really do this. I'm gone after this year. With the town obstructing base village construction and what is clearly going to be an operating loss every year as Killington trains customers to go elsewhere, the new management will be shot within 2 or 3 years.

The Boston market is definitely going to vanish. Loon just expanded. Sunday River and Sugarloaf offer a joint season pass and will have a longer operating schedule.

If Sugarbush could convince the state to improve the Roxbury Gap road so you can get from I-89 to Rt 100 reliably in the winter, Sugarbush would grab a bunch of the Boston market. Exit 5/Williamstown & Northfield on I-89 is mile marker 43. It's 17 miles from I-89 over the gap to Warren and 8 miles of it is crappy roads. With an improved road, Sugarbush would only be another 15 or 20 minutes drive time from Boston. More snow. Less crowds. Counting Mad River, a similar number of acres and better terrain.

excellent thesis....give us april & may....im gonna check out the bush & mrg with junie this season & i too may be moving on....this really sucks....get rid of these powdr puffs already....

[Dr. NO]

[/b]"The length of the season and the operating schedules for lodges are not drivers of our brand position or financial success."[/b]

Yep, length of season had nothing to do with it. That is why BMMC was so un-successful with snow piled high and deep on OL. That is why K LTD was able to sell many late season passes in March so those from areas that closed Easter week could ski into May or June. That is why they had to limit bibs for events such as May Day and June 1st SL Fun Races. Maybe that is why, when Smith ran the place, the Memorial Day Tri was so under crowded, not. Once ASC took over, these events went down hill and disappeared.

The lodge? Who is going down to the Snowshed lodge for events and bands during special non-holiday weeks such as the 2 weeks for College Days? I doubt that will go over well, especially with beginners coming down. Guess POWDR better get out the signs and speed police to control the zoo down there.

K Base and Bear Mountain are Killington, and the Season is what made Killington the beast and best in the East. Can you say MEOW!

[KnuckleDragger]

The length of their season can have a lot to do with people's perception of the area even through December. Back before I started buying season passes and was much less savvy, if my friends and I wanted to go skiing in December, we would generally head to Killington even though plenty of other mountains were also open. The rationale was that if Killington has already been open for a month or more, then they were probably going to have much more snow than a place that had only been open for a week. This may not have been an accurate view of how things worked but it was still a major factor in our decision process.

If I were in the same situation now as I was then (as no doubt many people are) I would probably think I was better off heading farther north to Stowe, etc.

[skitiger]

Why should I drive from NJ past Wyndham or Gore? Without a "whole" mountain, Gore is probably better. Certainly friendlier. For a quick fix, I could hit Blue Mtn. in less than 75 minutes.

[shortski]

Why should I drive from NJ past Wyndham or Gore? Without a "whole" mountain, Gore is probably better. Certainly friendlier. For a quick fix, I could hit Blue Mtn. in less than 75 minutes.

And save $60-$120 on gas in the process.

[chfriend]

K Base and Bear Mountain are Killington, and the Season is what made Killington the beast and best in the East.

I'll come clean. I've only been up to K for four days of snowboarding, two days hiking and one day mtn biking. Last year was my first year snowboarding (or doing any kind of winter sport, or extreme sport for that matter). I can't (or should I say, can't bring myself to) touch most of the terrain on K Peak or Bear yet, but without experiencing the core of Killington, I can tell you that this statement hits it head on. Outer Limits anyone?

[skiingsnow]

I'd have to look back through some old posts, but I believe the season length was pretty well known before the first wave of passes were being sold.

I believe this is the thread that brought the operating dates to light, posted on 8/20. Didn't passes go on sale 8/1 or earlier?:
http://www.killingtonzone.com/forums/vi ... ht=opening

I started that thread, but that was when the specific dates were noticed on the website... The FIRST day passes went on sale, it was on the website the passes were good from Mid Nov to Mid April... Some people were confused to as if this was the season length, or if you had to pay extra before and after these dates... Tom/Dave quickly pointed out the season passes were good everyday of the season, and those timeframes were the expected opening and closing times of Killington. Everyone knew what they were buying into, when they decided to get the pass.

See how quickly people forgot??? Amazing isn't it! If everything goes well with respect to sticking to the opening schedule of mountain areas, and they make snow on every trail that has pipes, groomings good, snow is dry, then Most, not all, but most things the last couple of months will all be water under the bridge for most Killington skiers! (kids programs would still be )This would extend to almost all people if they just extended the season 1 or even 2 weeks later... Basically only the few bond pass people, and the people and family of those layed off will still have problems with powdr, otherwise if they extend the season to close to the end of April, and keep with the stuff above, then MOST everyone will be happy!

[Geoff]

I'd have to look back through some old posts, but I believe the season length was pretty well known before the first wave of passes were being sold.

I believe this is the thread that brought the operating dates to light, posted on 8/20. Didn't passes go on sale 8/1 or earlier?:
http://www.killingtonzone.com/forums/vi ... ht=opening

I started that thread, but that was when the specific dates were noticed on the website... The FIRST day passes went on sale, it was on the website the passes were good from Mid Nov to Mid April... Some people were confused to as if this was the season length, or if you had to pay extra before and after these dates... Tom/Dave quickly pointed out the season passes were good everyday of the season, and those timeframes were the expected opening and closing times of Killington. Everyone knew what they were buying into, when they decided to get the pass.

See how quickly people forgot??? Amazing isn't it! If everything goes well with respect to sticking to the opening schedule of mountain areas, and they make snow on every trail that has pipes, groomings good, snow is dry, then Most, not all, but most things the last couple of months will all be water under the bridge for most Killington skiers! (kids programs would still be )This would extend to almost all people if they just extended the season 1 or even 2 weeks later... Basically only the few bond pass people, and the people and family of those layed off will still have problems with powdr, otherwise if they extend the season to close to the end of April, and keep with the stuff above, then MOST everyone will be happy!

A bunch of us own property at the resort and didn't have a short-term option. Between property taxes, condo fees, utilities, and automobile expense, the season pass is noise. If I can only amortize my costs over 20 weekends, owning a vacation home at Killington is a lousy deal. If Killington provides me with an underwhelming Thanksgiving through Christmas product and doesn't run into early May with a top-notch April product, I'm gone. I've owned since the early 1990's so I don't mind cutting my price to relocate to a resort that caters to my needs. Preston Smith had it right. Open early. Close late. Give me incentive to buy real estate and get a pass at the mountain that gives me the most ski weekends. That's why I'm at Killington and that's why I will leave. Somebody else will pick up the torch since that branding worked well enough to create the largest resort in the east.

[Grandmontes]

Give me incentive to buy real estate and get a pass at the mountain that gives me the most ski weekends. That's why I'm at Killington and that's why I will leave. Somebody else will pick up the torch since that branding worked well enough to create the largest resort in the east.

If Killington has no stake in your property why should they care? However, if they build condo's, they may offer extended lift service for just and only just buyers of their property. ( Run 1 lift to the peak, say)

You can come up with all kinds of mumbo jumbo esoteric arguements for not doing so. But from a free market absent government intervention to prevent this, it would be great for Killington owned properties.

And all this talk about "branding" is just a bunch of college boy marketing analogies equating Killington with Coke , Pepsi, or Marlboro by people who live and work in Vermont.

Killington is what it will always be. A slightly bigger Knoll with more natural snowfall then anything to the south and anything to the north isn't worth driving an extra 1 hr for just a weekend of skiing.

[danny p]

with regard to season length before purchasing a season pass:


Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:09 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
- Will the season be 4-1/2 months, or 7+ months?


A Killington/Pico season pass is valid from mid-November through mid-April, weather and snow conditions permitting

Anyone else see that at the bottom of the season pass page?

I noticed it on the bottom the season pass page in july, just as pass prices were announced, they decided to hide it in the fine print

[Bubba]

Chris's comment on season length not being the driver of the brand begs the question "What is the Killington brand?"

[ace]

Yes, a shorter season blows, cert for me, and for everyone, skiers, businesses, etc. But you all are not being truthful unless you agree:

The other mountains will have a shorter season and/or less available terrain;

No one is there in the Spring, which I could not stop saying esp this year as I went up and down with no one around.

It is a vicious cycle where when negativity about attitude, spending, snow-making douse the buzz that was K, but with great sadness I cannot see that buzz coming back. Truth is, hard-core skiers are no ones profit-making demographic, and those are the only folks who ski late season. Everyone else is going warm weather by April. It’s not that K has not tried to remain true to the long season even the last few years – and I personally think the long-season is cost-effective marketing - but it just seems that less people care to ski later, and so I can see why some may judge this to be an unworthy marketing approach, esp as no one else has a longer season.

The real money-maker and buzz-maker to me has always been early-season, but maybe it is just too stupid to blow and wash away over and over again – altho again I would judge the buzz factor worthwhile and it does seem rather foolish to not use K’s natural attributes to have a longer season.

[Mister Moose]

Chris's comment on season length not being the driver of the brand begs the question "What is the Killington brand?"

This was one of the questions answered in Alpinezone, and here's both the question and the response:

2knees :
What is your vision for Killington's "brand recognition" for the future? Killington has made its reputation on a long season, tons of snowmaking and maybe even its access road nightlife. With the reduction in season length and the reduced operating schedules for some mountain areas, it would be difficult to see Killington as different than other area in terms of season length and resort size. What would you like people to view your resort as now? What will differentiate you from the others?

Chris Nyberg :
2knees, the Killington brand position, what clearly differentiates Killington from the competition, has not changed since the company was sold. Killington has a strong brand based on the size of the resort, its diverse terrain, awesome snowmaking firepower, the variety of entertainment found both on and off the slopes, a multitude of dining and lodging options, and in general the high energy atmosphere found here as a result of the guests we host. The length of the season and the operating schedules for lodges are not drivers of our brand position or financial success. Over time the Killington brand position may change, as we repair, rebuild and replace infrastructure and become more efficient. For example, we are implementing programs that are more environmentally responsible and reduce the resorts' CO2 emissions – soon we hope to be known for being an eco-friendly operator. Operating schedules for different portions of the mountain really do not change from recent years, reduction of services in some lodges are balanced with now providing full services daily in Snowshed, and lift ops do not change at all with the exception of Tuesdays and Wednesdays non-holiday (the 2 slowest days every week), at Pico and Skyeship Stage 1.