Real improvements for 08/09, what do you want to see?

[rogman]

I'd blow up the KBL area and start over again. Move the lodge 500 feet back into the parking area to allow for easy transition between SS and K-1

I'd move KBL to where the skating rink was, so you could ski in front of it. The K1 and Vale lots are prime real estate, that'll end up as real estate. Actually, what probably will get blown up is the summit lodge. It is going to need a major renovation, and without the Gondi going in there anymore, it is vastly underutilized. I'm sure the tree huggers hate having that huge monstrosity marring their mountain vista, and would "trade" access to some other terrain in exchange for getting rid of it. If that were the case, I'd rebuild on the backside of Skye, where you could get at it from the Gondi, and Superstar, and still have decent views off to the south.

[johnny the jibber]

i think customers would be happy if some of these were installed in the base lodges...

[SPORE]

I'd blow up the KBL area and start over again. Move the lodge 500 feet back into the parking area to allow for easy transition between SS and K-1

I'd move KBL to where the skating rink was, so you could ski in front of it. The K1 and Vale lots are prime real estate, that'll end up as real estate. Actually, what probably will get blown up is the summit lodge. It is going to need a major renovation, and without the Gondi going in there anymore, it is vastly underutilized. I'm sure the tree huggers hate having that huge monstrosity marring their mountain vista, and would "trade" access to some other terrain in exchange for getting rid of it. If that were the case, I'd rebuild on the backside of Skye, where you could get at it from the Gondi, and Superstar, and still have decent views off to the south.

They have plans to demolish and rebuild the Summit Lodge. Was told that there are drawings and plans in place. Would be a three level lodge with cantilevered decks on all three levels.

Work possibly beginning in 09, maybe sooner.

[icedtea]

jtj - damn you into the bondage thing huh?

[johnny the jibber]

no, just think girls dancing in cages would be a nice addition to the base lodges and some family restaurants around town...you know, like at some dance clubs...

[newpylong]

Get a f*** job.

This is in response to skiingsnow's "lowered expectations" post.....

http://www.killingtonzone.com/forums/vi ... sc&start=0

(skiingsnow - DO NOT POST IN THIS THREAD!!! You are not welcome!!!)

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For 08/09, Killington has already stated that they plan to spend $6-10M. It's unclear if this capital only, or capital+other, or if they will even stick to this number.

They have also stated that they are interested in reconfiguring lifts, upgrading lifts, reconfiguring trails, upgrading facilities, in addition to upgrading/maintaining their snowmaking system....among other things.

They should have certain business goals, especially with the village permitting process coming up - more visits to the area, in particular.

As a customer, what changes would you like to see at Killington in '08/'09 that would cause you to stay vs. ski at another area, buy an unlimited pass vs. a blackout, invite more friends and family to the area, ski there more as a day tripper buying tickets, or book a vacation there.....things that would increase visits, depending on what segment of the market you are in?

What additional services would you pay for?

It can already be assumed that they will maintain the snowmaking and make minor upgrades to the tune of $1-2m, so lets not talk about that for now, unless you're suggesting somethign radical. Ditto for maintaining the lifts and trails. This thread is for real changes and upgrades that result in noticeable changes for the customer and an enhanced skiing experience!!!

Some possible bigger ticket options, IMHO...I would suggest one of these three:

1. Personally, I think the best money is spent at an initial phase of the interconnect. The permittting is done. They can put in the lift on the south side of Pico, cut a traverse from Ramshead and a few trails, and call it good. It's at a high enough elevation as to not require snowmaking, or limited snowmaking could be installed. Sure, it's not perfect, but it get's the job done for ~$2M, or even less if they were to relocate the DF quad. Enhancements could be made in later years.

2. A real early/late skiing plan would be another solid option. Re-extending the ski season is VERY important to justify a base village. Either an upper mountain lift of some sort (on Downdraft), or a K-1 midstation (possible!). Plus a proper deck on the Superstar pub with an event series to draw people up. Cut the operating schedule to long weekends.

3. Upgrade the Skye Peak Quad to a high speed lift (4 or 6). This is the next lift slated to be replaced. ~$4m, plus extras. Probably the least impact overall of these three options, but it certatinly would improve how bear/south skye skis. Replacing the Snowdon Quad would be nice, but I don't think it's in the cards for a few years.

Here's a few other smaller dollar items (under $1m) that would positively improve the skiing...pick 2 or 3?

1. Straighten the SRT or install the midstations. The existing towers on the Jug side could probably be used, and the cross bars changed.

2. Install a used double chair to service the lower Dreamaker park, or move the park to a steeper trail with better access (perhaps widen Wildfire by 50 feet, and make it half bumps and half park, side by side?). Honestly, I liked the park on Wildfire...

3. Shorten the Snowdon triple so that it ends at the top of Conclusion (to service racers on Highline, etc) or install the midstation. Improve the trail setup in that pod to provide more routes (split mousetrap and join it with lower bunny buster, make snow on interceptor, cut a narrow steep to the far side of highline, change the grade of lower mouse run so the return to the K-1 is better.

4. Reconfigure the trail layout around the K-1 Lodge, Superstar, and the Snowdon triple. Route traffic from skyelark around below the bottom of superstar, and provide a skiing path below KBL over to the K-1. Open the far right side of superstar to skiing. Re-grade the area around the snowdon triple. There's many things that could be done around here to improve the guest experience.

5. Reconfigure the upper and lower Canyon area trails. Specifically, grade and widen (slightly) heavenly traverse and make some snow on it, mark it as an intermediate route. De-emphasize upper great northern. (something, anything). Maybe some bridges?? In the lower canyon, prepare the closed area under the bottom of the quad for skiing and blow snow on it. Prepare the K-1 liftline for skiing, and re-open old lower cascade. Install a snowmaking pipe to serve the K-1 liftline and Flume. Grade a traverse from that side of the canyon back over to the canyon quad. This would siginfigantly improve the feel of that area, and open up some great terrain that is rarely skiable.

So, that's what I have for now. What are your thoughts?

[laseranimal]

rogman nice idea

never thought about moving it forward, that space isn't really being used anymore.

[robrules]

As someone who has left Killington this year (after 7 years of buying a season pass), due to new owners taking over, raising prices without doing a damn thing to justify those increases, arrogant attitudes from management, and no plan for the much needed overhaul of the mtn infrastructure, this is what it would take to get me back in the near future.

- Building the interconnect
- keeping pico (and the interconnect) open all week
- replace snowdon quad
- replace sky peak quad
- dedication to early (pre mid-nov) season openings
- a plan/pass where I can ride for less than $45 per day for 10-15 days a year

But I know that I am not their target customer, so I'm not holding my breath. I'll just keep enjoying the quality product and better value other mountains are already providing.

[buzzkill]

I'll like the interconnect if it gives us back lift service to the top of Ram.
SPQ to a HSQ is next, but expect lots of wind holds.
I don't care about the rest and leave Snowdon alone.

[jhatski]

I didnt read all of the suggestions because it looked awfully long. I did notice Johnny the Jibbers post complete with picture and I am all for that. Would that be wrong to turn that into an avatar?

In reality what would bring me back is positive news about snowmaking and grooming and the fact that the lifts work. Reading to much about lift closures due to malfunctioning, I dont mean windholds, I recognize wind happens.

Twelve years ago I took my son skiing at Killington on a weekend. We went into the restrooms at Rams head. All of the urinals were to high for a five year old to reach. Stalls were backed up and people in line. It was right around that time that they turned Rams Head into the family base area, put in the new lift there, controlled speed of people coming down that slope, etc. and never installed lower urinals so the kids could actually go to the bathroom (they may have done it since that time but didnt the first couple of years). I wrote an email to management, never got an answer. Posted it on the old web site recieved a lot of stupid remarks.

My long winded point is I would like to see the management of killington be able to process information so that if they make an area of family area they would install the urinals at a level that a kid could pee there.

[SkiDork]

they now have milk crates upside down that the kids stand on.

[buzzkill]

I didnt read all of the suggestions because it looked awfully long. I did notice Johnny the Jibbers post complete with picture and I am all for that. Would that be wrong to turn that into an avatar?

In reality what would bring me back is positive news about snowmaking and grooming and the fact that the lifts work. Reading to much about lift closures due to malfunctioning, I dont mean windholds, I recognize wind happens.

Twelve years ago I took my son skiing at Killington on a weekend. We went into the restrooms at Rams head. All of the urinals were to high for a five year old to reach. Stalls were backed up and people in line. It was right around that time that they turned Rams Head into the family base area, put in the new lift there, controlled speed of people coming down that slope, etc. and never installed lower urinals so the kids could actually go to the bathroom (they may have done it since that time but didnt the first couple of years). I wrote an email to management, never got an answer. Posted it on the old web site recieved a lot of stupid remarks.

My long winded point is I would like to see the management of killington be able to process information so that if they make an area of family area they would install the urinals at a level that a kid could pee there.

looking for a low boy, you missed the low tech solution - the plastic milk crates.

[laseranimal]

I'll like the interconnect if it gives us back lift service to the top of Ram.
SPQ to a HSQ is next, but expect lots of wind holds.
I don't care about the rest and leave Snowdon alone.

I've been up at the top of Rams

I don't want it back, its just brutal up there, I wasn't there for when there was a lift but judging how bad the wind was up there the couple of times I've hiked it, I can't imagine sitting on a lift into that headwind

eek

[jhatski]

Milk Crates, 5 year olds and ski boots now I see why I am not the CEO of ASC

[Geoff]

I'd blow up the KBL area and start over again. Move the lodge 500 feet back into the parking area to allow for easy transition between SS and K-1

I'd move KBL to where the skating rink was, so you could ski in front of it. The K1 and Vale lots are prime real estate, that'll end up as real estate. Actually, what probably will get blown up is the summit lodge. It is going to need a major renovation, and without the Gondi going in there anymore, it is vastly underutilized. I'm sure the tree huggers hate having that huge monstrosity marring their mountain vista, and would "trade" access to some other terrain in exchange for getting rid of it. If that were the case, I'd rebuild on the backside of Skye, where you could get at it from the Gondi, and Superstar, and still have decent views off to the south.

They have plans to demolish and rebuild the Summit Lodge. Was told that there are drawings and plans in place. Would be a three level lodge with cantilevered decks on all three levels.

Work possibly beginning in 09, maybe sooner.

Killington doesn't own the main parking lot. They don't own the land where the KBL sits.

I think a new K Peak day lodge would be a huge upgrade. Hopefully, they'll also install an upper mountain lift to the peak. That'll give access to the building from Glades, Canyon Quad, and Southridge. It will also bring back reliable fall and spring skiing at a much lower cost.