Weekend Grooming from the Ask Killington Forum

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tombuch
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Weekend Grooming from the Ask Killington Forum

Post by tombuch »

From the Ask Killington Forum, “The Groomers On Strike For Weekends?”
“…Telling weekend warriors the grooming fleet arrives Monday to laydown corduroy when Okemo's, Stratton's and Sugarbush's massive grooming fleet ran all weekend, every weekend , and every day, all season makes Killington's management look out of touch and non customer centric. Or worst yet, profit greedy and doesn't care about it's customers experience. Good luck trying to sell $1.5 million luxury slopeside houses when the word keeps getting out that POWDR has curtailed grooming to manage the bottom line at the customers expense…”
This past weekend was a challenge because of the r*in and late night temperature change. I teach snowboarding at Stratton (mentioned in the above post), and we have been briefed on grooming issues a few times over the past seasons. As I understand the issue, a warm and wet day creates slush that can’t be effectively groomed until it chills and sets. Because the cold weather came in so late this past weekend we were left with slush on the mountain that delayed access by the groomers.

At most resorts the groomers are scheduled to hit the mountain right after closing, and continue until opening the next morning. When access to the mountain is delayed by slushy snow it reduces the number of trails they can groom in a night, and reduces the number of passes they can make on each trail. That makes for tough conditions no matter how you look at it.

Stratton tends to deal with that kind of issue by using selective overnight grooming to get key trails in shape for the morning, while skipping whole sections of the mountain. They tackle the really important trails just before the opening bell so they are super fresh, then move the groomers to the closed sections of the mountain to keep working through daylight hours. That allows for more trail openings as the day progresses, but sometimes guests don’t understand their favorite area of the mountain is on a delayed opening. So, management needs to keep the rest of the staff in the loop about planned operations so guests get solid information throughout the day.

This kind of effort requires lots of overtime and really pressures the grooming crew, but it gives our guests the best possible conditions. It also tires out the groomers, and really adds pressures the next night when the crew is working near exhaustion.

A weekend like the one we all just experienced places an enormous demand on the grooming crew. I know at my mountain our groom team killed it, and our guests noticed their amazing effort. Of course the mountain was still a bit icy and there were plenty of “death cookies,” but given the weather I think our guests were appreciative of the snow conditions, and I think seeing the groomers at work all day helped them to understand how much we value a quality snow surface.

I’m sorry to hear folks didn’t recognize that extra effort at Killington. There may have been other factors in play. Perhaps somebody from Killington will follow up with a discussion of their grooming operation this past weekend, and how they address the inevitable customer inquiries.

With all that said, if you notice a solid grooming job, especially following challenging weather, it’s well worth seeking out folks on the grooming crew and letting them know their efforts were noticed and appreciated. Or, find a few minutes to sing praise on the web!
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Post by Highway Star »

Very good points....Stratton's grooming is top notch. I've been there after a snap freeze several times over the last 10+ years and have always been impressed.

Not sure when things froze up Saturday night at Killington, but they had about 15% of the mountain open on Sunday. When the K-1 opened around 2:30, only Great Northern and the North Ridge trails were added to that. No steeps. Granted, the weather supposedly put everything on wind hold for the day, but I suspect it was more so that they couldn't get the mountain groomed.

Nothing against the grooming crew....
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tyrolean_skier
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Post by tyrolean_skier »

Highway Star wrote:Very good points....Stratton's grooming is top notch. I've been there after a snap freeze several times over the last 10+ years and have always been impressed.

Not sure when things froze up Saturday night at Killington, but they had about 15% of the mountain open on Sunday. When the K-1 opened around 2:30, only Great Northern and the North Ridge trails were added to that. No steeps. Granted, the weather supposedly put everything on wind hold for the day, but I suspect it was more so that they couldn't get the mountain groomed.

Nothing against the grooming crew....
I believe the freezing started shortly after midnight. At least that's when I notice that the r*in had changed over to snow.
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Barnibus
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Post by Barnibus »

found that almost all of great eastern wasn't groomed yesterday, as they must have been planning not to open that side of the mountain all day anyways, i guess they just don't care about us anymore
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Post by skiingsnow »

Barnibus wrote:found that almost all of great eastern wasn't groomed yesterday, as they must have been planning not to open that side of the mountain all day anyways, i guess they just don't care about us anymore
So you poached it? Or did they open it? If it was open, do you think that maybe it wasn't groomed because they knew they could open it without being groomed, and that it would be ok, and put the effort into other trails?
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Barnibus
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Post by Barnibus »

skiingsnow wrote:
Barnibus wrote:found that almost all of great eastern wasn't groomed yesterday, as they must have been planning not to open that side of the mountain all day anyways, i guess they just don't care about us anymore
So you poached it? Or did they open it? If it was open, do you think that maybe it wasn't groomed because they knew they could open it without being groomed, and that it would be ok, and put the effort into other trails?
Closed and ungroomed, no sign of any love for that part of he mountain sunday
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KMartman
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Post by KMartman »

skiingsnow wrote:
Barnibus wrote:found that almost all of great eastern wasn't groomed yesterday, as they must have been planning not to open that side of the mountain all day anyways, i guess they just don't care about us anymore
So you poached it? Or did they open it? If it was open, do you think that maybe it wasn't groomed because they knew they could open it without being groomed, and that it would be ok, and put the effort into other trails?
Wow man..can killington do ANYTHING wrong in your eyes?

M
Nikoli
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Post by Nikoli »

KMartman wrote:
skiingsnow wrote:
Barnibus wrote:found that almost all of great eastern wasn't groomed yesterday, as they must have been planning not to open that side of the mountain all day anyways, i guess they just don't care about us anymore
So you poached it? Or did they open it? If it was open, do you think that maybe it wasn't groomed because they knew they could open it without being groomed, and that it would be ok, and put the effort into other trails?
Wow man..can killington do ANYTHING wrong in your eyes?

M
He's trying to get a job and/or a free pass. :wink:
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Post by Dr. NO »

My "boss" told me they had the groomers out to open more terrain and that they just left the canyon. Well, I went back up for about 2 more runs and guess what, the quad was running, but the groomers never made it to the canyon. 1/4" ice on 2 inches of snow is NOT a bad deal in VT and those trails should have been opened.
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owurugby
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Re: Weekend Grooming from the Ask Killington Forum

Post by owurugby »

tombuch wrote:From the Ask Killington Forum, “The Groomers On Strike For Weekends?”
“…Telling weekend warriors the grooming fleet arrives Monday to laydown corduroy when Okemo's, Stratton's and Sugarbush's massive grooming fleet ran all weekend, every weekend , and every day, all season makes Killington's management look out of touch and non customer centric. Or worst yet, profit greedy and doesn't care about it's customers experience. Good luck trying to sell $1.5 million luxury slopeside houses when the word keeps getting out that POWDR has curtailed grooming to manage the bottom line at the customers expense…”
This past weekend was a challenge because of the r*in and late night temperature change. I teach snowboarding at Stratton (mentioned in the above post), and we have been briefed on grooming issues a few times over the past seasons. As I understand the issue, a warm and wet day creates slush that can’t be effectively groomed until it chills and sets. Because the cold weather came in so late this past weekend we were left with slush on the mountain that delayed access by the groomers.

At most resorts the groomers are scheduled to hit the mountain right after closing, and continue until opening the next morning. When access to the mountain is delayed by slushy snow it reduces the number of trails they can groom in a night, and reduces the number of passes they can make on each trail. That makes for tough conditions no matter how you look at it.

Stratton tends to deal with that kind of issue by using selective overnight grooming to get key trails in shape for the morning, while skipping whole sections of the mountain. They tackle the really important trails just before the opening bell so they are super fresh, then move the groomers to the closed sections of the mountain to keep working through daylight hours. That allows for more trail openings as the day progresses, but sometimes guests don’t understand their favorite area of the mountain is on a delayed opening. So, management needs to keep the rest of the staff in the loop about planned operations so guests get solid information throughout the day.

This kind of effort requires lots of overtime and really pressures the grooming crew, but it gives our guests the best possible conditions. It also tires out the groomers, and really adds pressures the next night when the crew is working near exhaustion.

A weekend like the one we all just experienced places an enormous demand on the grooming crew. I know at my mountain our groom team killed it, and our guests noticed their amazing effort. Of course the mountain was still a bit icy and there were plenty of “death cookies,” but given the weather I think our guests were appreciative of the snow conditions, and I think seeing the groomers at work all day helped them to understand how much we value a quality snow surface.

I’m sorry to hear folks didn’t recognize that extra effort at Killington. There may have been other factors in play. Perhaps somebody from Killington will follow up with a discussion of their grooming operation this past weekend, and how they address the inevitable customer inquiries.

With all that said, if you notice a solid grooming job, especially following challenging weather, it’s well worth seeking out folks on the grooming crew and letting them know their efforts were noticed and appreciated. Or, find a few minutes to sing praise on the web!
Responding as an uninformed Stratton observer - It is my understanding that conditions on Sunday (at Stratton) were so suspect that a major state tournament was forced to cancel races for the day. The consequences of which forced those who wished to stay and compete to miss school today and find an extra night of lodging. My only point is - conditions sucked across the board. The idle bitching that we conduct here is for our own enjoyment - those who live in glass houses however...so it goes.
KMartman
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Post by KMartman »

Nikoli wrote:
KMartman wrote:
skiingsnow wrote:
Barnibus wrote:found that almost all of great eastern wasn't groomed yesterday, as they must have been planning not to open that side of the mountain all day anyways, i guess they just don't care about us anymore
So you poached it? Or did they open it? If it was open, do you think that maybe it wasn't groomed because they knew they could open it without being groomed, and that it would be ok, and put the effort into other trails?
Wow man..can killington do ANYTHING wrong in your eyes?

M
He's trying to get a job and/or a free pass. :wink:
I thought sucking the boss was frowned upon these days... ;-)

M
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tyrolean_skier
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Re: Weekend Grooming from the Ask Killington Forum

Post by tyrolean_skier »

owurugby wrote:
tombuch wrote:From the Ask Killington Forum, “The Groomers On Strike For Weekends?”
“…Telling weekend warriors the grooming fleet arrives Monday to laydown corduroy when Okemo's, Stratton's and Sugarbush's massive grooming fleet ran all weekend, every weekend , and every day, all season makes Killington's management look out of touch and non customer centric. Or worst yet, profit greedy and doesn't care about it's customers experience. Good luck trying to sell $1.5 million luxury slopeside houses when the word keeps getting out that POWDR has curtailed grooming to manage the bottom line at the customers expense…”
This past weekend was a challenge because of the r*in and late night temperature change. I teach snowboarding at Stratton (mentioned in the above post), and we have been briefed on grooming issues a few times over the past seasons. As I understand the issue, a warm and wet day creates slush that can’t be effectively groomed until it chills and sets. Because the cold weather came in so late this past weekend we were left with slush on the mountain that delayed access by the groomers.

At most resorts the groomers are scheduled to hit the mountain right after closing, and continue until opening the next morning. When access to the mountain is delayed by slushy snow it reduces the number of trails they can groom in a night, and reduces the number of passes they can make on each trail. That makes for tough conditions no matter how you look at it.

Stratton tends to deal with that kind of issue by using selective overnight grooming to get key trails in shape for the morning, while skipping whole sections of the mountain. They tackle the really important trails just before the opening bell so they are super fresh, then move the groomers to the closed sections of the mountain to keep working through daylight hours. That allows for more trail openings as the day progresses, but sometimes guests don’t understand their favorite area of the mountain is on a delayed opening. So, management needs to keep the rest of the staff in the loop about planned operations so guests get solid information throughout the day.

This kind of effort requires lots of overtime and really pressures the grooming crew, but it gives our guests the best possible conditions. It also tires out the groomers, and really adds pressures the next night when the crew is working near exhaustion.

A weekend like the one we all just experienced places an enormous demand on the grooming crew. I know at my mountain our groom team killed it, and our guests noticed their amazing effort. Of course the mountain was still a bit icy and there were plenty of “death cookies,” but given the weather I think our guests were appreciative of the snow conditions, and I think seeing the groomers at work all day helped them to understand how much we value a quality snow surface.

I’m sorry to hear folks didn’t recognize that extra effort at Killington. There may have been other factors in play. Perhaps somebody from Killington will follow up with a discussion of their grooming operation this past weekend, and how they address the inevitable customer inquiries.

With all that said, if you notice a solid grooming job, especially following challenging weather, it’s well worth seeking out folks on the grooming crew and letting them know their efforts were noticed and appreciated. Or, find a few minutes to sing praise on the web!
Responding as an uninformed Stratton observer - It is my understanding that conditions on Sunday (at Stratton) were so suspect that a major state tournament was forced to cancel races for the day. The consequences of which forced those who wished to stay and compete to miss school today and find an extra night of lodging. My only point is - conditions sucked across the board. The idle bitching that we conduct here is for our own enjoyment - those who live in glass houses however...so it goes.
The event at Middlebury that the Snow Princess was suppose to compete in was also cancellend due to the fact that the lift that they would have used was frozen and could not be started. The Snow Princess ended up skiing with her coach for 2 hours there before heading back to K.
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