No Snowshed/Bear Crossover...what's next???

[Highway Star]

I think alot of people underestimate just how major of a change eliminating the Bear-Snowshed crossover is going to be....it affects almost half the mountain. Probably one of the most radical changes since the K-1 or even Bear being built?

Obviously POWDR isn't afraid to make major changes.... and mostly for their own benefit and at the cost of their customers. Again, with this new trail layout, they have proven that they are willing to make a difficult change.....and if it's good or bad or if they will even follow through on it is yet TBD.

So....what's next??? For Snowdon? For the Canyon? Hummm...

[jackalope158]

how is closen the cross over benefitting them?

[skiingsnow]

No kidding. Running an additional lift 7 days a week. The cost to create the designs, cut trails, moving the earth all over, and put in snowmaking pipe and hydrants. For THEIR benifit my ass!

[Highway Star]

Chumps.

All I said was that it was a difficult change. Not if it was good or bad or beinificial to anyone in particular....which is TBD.

However, most of their other changes so far have only benefited themselves.

[tyrolean_skier]

I never really liked the Snowshed crossover but it did serve its purpose at times. I remember a few times when Skiho and I skied as fast as we could from Bear over to the KSC via the Snowshed crossover in order to meet up with our kids on time. I think it took us less than 5 minutes to get the deed done going full speed. Now we will probably be skiing less at Bear since we will have to depend on the new lift and probably the line will always be long at that one so we must take that into account as well.

[jackalope158]

tear, sniff sniff

[skiadikt]

No kidding. Running an additional lift 7 days a week. The cost to create the designs, cut trails, moving the earth all over, and put in snowmaking pipe and hydrants. For THEIR benifit my ass!

the question will be whether they run the additional lift or not. based on last year not one of their strong points. and what lift will they run less to make up for the additional lift.

removing the crossover definitely removes a lot of accessibility/flexibility on that side of the mtn. the crossover allowed a wide variety of trail selection from skiing the dreammaker terrain park off the bear quad to skiing combos like upper skyeburst to lower vertigo from ssq. we could come up with all sorts of combinations and that is/was the beauty of the place. now trail selection will be rather restricted.

closing the crossover also means they can't open the mtn in stages as in the past. though not for everyone, early or late season we could do laps off the ssq skiing upper skyeburst, upper dreammaker or upper needles. by the map everything now is t-t-b and thus will be slower to open up. the benefit of course is more uninterrupted t-t-b skiing when a trail is finally opened.

though it's been moving in that direction for a number of years now, at least from the bear quad, bear will no longer be a place for the intermediate skier (if i'm not mistaken they make up the largest skier demographic). unless you want to ski through the terrain park on bear trap there's no t-t-b intermediate run from that lift. the unfortunate thing is that bear is the place to be on your typical frigid, windy mid-winter k day, but no longer for the intermediate skier. looks like the bear chair will become a much less useful chair for lots of skiers which i guess is the idea. btw i'm not buying the hype about a 4 1/2 minute lift ride on the new spq. more like 6-7 minutes.

[Talisman]

[the benefit of course is more uninterrupted t-t-b skiing when a trail is finally opened.

Killington has some great terrain and the thought of "uninterrupted t-t-b skiing" on more trails has me liking the change. I'm not the demographic that Powdr is targeting, but I prefer trails that aren't cut up with cross overs. If Powdr could re-design more of the trail system at Killington to eliminate/minimize crossing trails it would be a good thing.

[SkiDork]

did they plant trees or something?

[Bubba]

No kidding. Running an additional lift 7 days a week. The cost to create the designs, cut trails, moving the earth all over, and put in snowmaking pipe and hydrants. For THEIR benifit my ass!

the question will be whether they run the additional lift or not. based on last year not one of their strong points. and what lift will they run less to make up for the additional lift.

removing the crossover definitely removes a lot of accessibility/flexibility on that side of the mtn. the crossover allowed a wide variety of trail selection from skiing the dreammaker terrain park off the bear quad to skiing combos like upper skyeburst to lower vertigo from ssq. we could come up with all sorts of combinations and that is/was the beauty of the place. now trail selection will be rather restricted.

closing the crossover also means they can't open the mtn in stages as in the past. though not for everyone, early or late season we could do laps off the ssq skiing upper skyeburst, upper dreammaker or upper needles. by the map everything now is t-t-b and thus will be slower to open up. the benefit of course is more uninterrupted t-t-b skiing when a trail is finally opened.

though it's been moving in that direction for a number of years now, at least from the bear quad, bear will no longer be a place for the intermediate skier (if i'm not mistaken they make up the largest skier demographic). unless you want to ski through the terrain park on bear trap there's no t-t-b intermediate run from that lift. the unfortunate thing is that bear is the place to be on your typical frigid, windy mid-winter k day, but no longer for the intermediate skier. looks like the bear chair will become a much less useful chair for lots of skiers which i guess is the idea. btw i'm not buying the hype about a 4 1/2 minute lift ride on the new spq. more like 6-7 minutes.

You highlight why one of the best things about Killington - allowing Novices and Intermediates to easily traverse the entire mountain - is also one of the bad things about Killington - all those crossover trails. I'm not sure this management, with its "western" approach to managing the mountain, fully understands the impact of their decisions on the largest segment of their skiers and riders. Continuous top to bottom is the norm in the west but not necessarily here in the east. We'll see.

I'm also not sure removing a novice run - Great Eastern - from the peak is the smart thing to do. Telling a novice skier that they can ski off the peak and do a four mile trail has a lot of value in attracting that market.

[skiadikt]

No kidding. Running an additional lift 7 days a week. The cost to create the designs, cut trails, moving the earth all over, and put in snowmaking pipe and hydrants. For THEIR benifit my ass!

the question will be whether they run the additional lift or not. based on last year not one of their strong points. and what lift will they run less to make up for the additional lift.

removing the crossover definitely removes a lot of accessibility/flexibility on that side of the mtn. the crossover allowed a wide variety of trail selection from skiing the dreammaker terrain park off the bear quad to skiing combos like upper skyeburst to lower vertigo from ssq. we could come up with all sorts of combinations and that is/was the beauty of the place. now trail selection will be rather restricted.

closing the crossover also means they can't open the mtn in stages as in the past. though not for everyone, early or late season we could do laps off the ssq skiing upper skyeburst, upper dreammaker or upper needles. by the map everything now is t-t-b and thus will be slower to open up. the benefit of course is more uninterrupted t-t-b skiing when a trail is finally opened.

though it's been moving in that direction for a number of years now, at least from the bear quad, bear will no longer be a place for the intermediate skier (if i'm not mistaken they make up the largest skier demographic). unless you want to ski through the terrain park on bear trap there's no t-t-b intermediate run from that lift. the unfortunate thing is that bear is the place to be on your typical frigid, windy mid-winter k day, but no longer for the intermediate skier. looks like the bear chair will become a much less useful chair for lots of skiers which i guess is the idea. btw i'm not buying the hype about a 4 1/2 minute lift ride on the new spq. more like 6-7 minutes.

You highlight why one of the best things about Killington - allowing Novices and Intermediates to easily traverse the entire mountain - is also one of the bad things about Killington - all those crossover trails. I'm not sure this management, with its "western" approach to managing the mountain, fully understands the impact of their decisions on the largest segment of their skiers and riders. Continuous top to bottom is the norm in the west but not necessarily here in the east. We'll see.

I'm also not sure removing a novice run - Great Eastern - from the peak is the smart thing to do. Telling a novice skier that they can ski off the peak and do a four mile trail has a lot of value in attracting that market.

bingo!

[Bart]

for me the changes are probably a good thing...and partially explain why I prefer the terrain and riding experience off the summit quad at Pico (long trails and simplicity)

maybe this is part of their longer term plan to improve the experience across the mountain, complete the interconnect etc.

I always thought of great eastern as a connecting trail and not that much fun no matter what level skier/rider you are ?

[laseranimal]

if any green trail off the peak should have been removed it SHOULD have been Great Northern

That being said I'm pretty happy with the changes. By closing the Snowshed Crossover it forces them to run the Northbrook Quad 7 Days a week, which with young kids is a FAR nicer experience than(italicized for spanky ) having to skate over the crossover. I also think this might help high level beginners and low intermediates discover high High Road as an access to Needles. I'm always amazed at how many people will go out and over to Superstar vs just skiing down high road to Needles.

The Stairs annoys me but its inevitable that secret trails are going to be put on the map. Its just the way things work, trails stay secret for a while, then people find out, then everyone skis them, then patrol wants them "on the map" so they can control opening and closing and make sure they can get a sled through.

I'm not crazy about the fact that there is now no intermediate route from South Ridge into Bear which means that you're either going to have to take Bear Cub/Wildfire or ski though the parks. I think you'd be better off putting the park back on lower wildfire and having Bear Trax to Bear Claw as the intermediate route to Bear. Although this could be deliberate way of keeping the beginner/intermediate skiers on Skye Peak and the advanced skiers at Bear

I don't really have much of an opinion on the Bittersweet changes. I never was a huge fan of the Superstar pod anyway so it makes no difference to me.

What IS very interesting to me is how in an effort to eliminate crossovers on Blue Square terrain they have now in effect created some VERY interesting intersections on Black Diamond Terrain. You now have Needles and Thimble feeding into the all new Great Eastern which used to be Blue Cruise Control. I think the Launch Pad intersection has been beaten to death already but it will be interesting to see what effect it will have.

[skiingsnow]

though it's been moving in that direction for a number of years now, at least from the bear quad, bear will no longer be a place for the intermediate skier (if i'm not mistaken they make up the largest skier demographic). unless you want to ski through the terrain park on bear trap there's no t-t-b intermediate run from that lift. the unfortunate thing is that bear is the place to be on your typical frigid, windy mid-winter k day, but no longer for the intermediate skier. looks like the bear chair will become a much less useful chair for lots of skiers which i guess is the idea. btw i'm not buying the hype about a 4 1/2 minute lift ride on the new spq. more like 6-7 minutes.

Use the other lift, the new SKYE PEAK EXPRESS @ Bear Mountain.


You aren't buying the lift can move that fast? Its 4.9 minutes. The lift is 4900' long. Only has to go 1000' per minute.

[Geoff]

though it's been moving in that direction for a number of years now, at least from the bear quad, bear will no longer be a place for the intermediate skier (if i'm not mistaken they make up the largest skier demographic). unless you want to ski through the terrain park on bear trap there's no t-t-b intermediate run from that lift. the unfortunate thing is that bear is the place to be on your typical frigid, windy mid-winter k day, but no longer for the intermediate skier. looks like the bear chair will become a much less useful chair for lots of skiers which i guess is the idea. btw i'm not buying the hype about a 4 1/2 minute lift ride on the new spq. more like 6-7 minutes.

Use the other lift, the new SKYE PEAK EXPRESS @ Bear Mountain.


You aren't buying the lift can move that fast? Its 4.9 minutes. The lift is 4900' long. Only has to go 1000' per minute.

Killington doesn't run any of their high speed lifts at top speed. Why would the Skye Peak Express be any different?

I know you have minimal exposure to other mountains but most places run their high speed lifts much faster than Killington.