Why people don't ski Killington

[Stormchaser]

The attitude of the people skiing Killington is going to reflect on people coming to town as well....I skied with a friend who comes up once a year with a group for superbowl weekend and he's an intermediate skier at best.....I gave him a tour of the mountain,including the new Stash, which he loved and took the trail all the way to the base of skyeship....afterward he messaged me that he had the most fun skiing with me than all of the 9 years he's been coming. It's an intimidating place to new visitors....maybe they should bring back the meet the mountain tours...and again there are such great people in the area,I believe the people make Killington my winter home and I rarely stray!

I didn't realize they stopped the tours? They used to have Grizzly on RSN talking about it, but haven't seen him this season...

Tours still run. Leave Snowshed at 10 or 11...

[2knees]

To be honest if a little of the TGR hype machine helps drive some traffic to a little hill like Magic and somehow manages to save some of the jobs of the people that work there, and prevents another hill from being added to the NELSAP list then I'm fine with that. And if you should find yourself in the bar upstairs at some point this year, I'll even buy you a beer.

Anyone and anything that helps keep magic open is good.

comparing magic to killington regularly is a bit moronic. they are at complete polar opposite ends of the skiing universe.

[RENO]

Any ski area going out of business sucks!
Who owns Magic now? They had enough trouble staying open when the economy was thriving. Hopefully the new owner is better then the previous owners and will survive this mess...

[JerseyGuy]

Any ski area going out of business sucks!
Who owns Magic now? They had enough trouble staying open when the economy was thriving. Hopefully the new owner is better then the previous owners and will survive this mess...

They're doing OK. Not great, but OK. Jim Sullivan & Co. haven't fled yet, God bless 'em, which is more than I can say for the previous two or three sets of owners.

Right now, though, the mountain's in really rough shape... just in time for Presidents' Weekend.

[laseranimal]

Just a heads up on the ownership

Jim S is toying with the idea of going CO-OP next season al-la MRG.

[skiadikt]

Just a heads up on the ownership

Jim S is toying with the idea of going CO-OP next season al-la MRG.

i'm hoping magic survives but i'm not sure about the coop thing. it doesn't have quite the cache of mrg.

[Mister Moose]

i'm hoping magic survives but i'm not sure about the coop thing. it doesn't have quite the cache of mrg.

I'll have to tell MrG next time I see him that he has "cachet"

[RENO]

Just a heads up on the ownership

Jim S is toying with the idea of going CO-OP next season al-la MRG.

i'm hoping magic survives but i'm not sure about the coop thing. it doesn't have quite the cache of mrg.

Not a fan of the co-op thing and not a fan of MRG. In good snow years MRG is good. Low snow years, it's a disaster. Snowmaking is king in the East and no Co-op is gonna pay for snowmaking...

[jhatski]

Because I dont ski K as much as I used to I will take a crack at the original question.

I used to ski at K about 10 days a year, (I used to ski 15-20 days in total a year).
I dont own real estate there so I can ski whereever I wanted to ski.
I usually ski midweek, so weekend crowds are not a problem
I usually ski with other people so there is some group decision making that goes on.

A) The group clearly felt that K was in a downward spiral about 5 or 6 years ago and decided to look at other mountains in vermont, and added a trip out west. The experience for our group I think is different from most k posters as it seems most of you own real estate near the mountain. There was an obvious decline.

B) Deals at K for lodging and skiing packages have for almost 10 ot 12 years been far more expensive than area mountains. I have been attacked on this subject before but believe me when I tell you I could get skiing and lodging packages at most competing mountains at least 30% cheaper than K.

C) The intermediate skiers in the group when exposed to other mountains had no interest in returning to Killington. they felt that the mountain trailed the other mountains in snowmaking, and grooming and lacked trails that allowed them to ski top to bottom uninterrupted by trail crossings etc.

D) Snowboarders in the group felt that it really lacked in its committment to them with snowboard parks and half pipe construction and the trail layouts had way to much flat traverses.


E) Now, we are out of the habit of skiing at K, so something would have to happen to win the group back, given the economy our trips are less frequent and would give up 12 days of skiing on the east coast to ski out west 5 or 6 days.

So looking at the list its all of the above to some degree.

[JerseyGuy]

Just a heads up on the ownership

Jim S is toying with the idea of going CO-OP next season al-la MRG.

i'm hoping magic survives but i'm not sure about the coop thing. it doesn't have quite the cache of mrg.

Not a fan of the co-op thing and not a fan of MRG. In good snow years MRG is good. Low snow years, it's a disaster. Snowmaking is king in the East and no Co-op is gonna pay for snowmaking...

Forget cachet... I doubt that Magic has enough relatively well-heeled die-hard long-time skiers to make the whole co-op thing work.

[JerseyGuy]

Because I dont ski K as much as I used to I will take a crack at the original question.

I used to ski at K about 10 days a year, (I used to ski 15-20 days in total a year).
I dont own real estate there so I can ski whereever I wanted to ski.
I usually ski midweek, so weekend crowds are not a problem
I usually ski with other people so there is some group decision making that goes on.

A) The group clearly felt that K was in a downward spiral about 5 or 6 years ago and decided to look at other mountains in vermont, and added a trip out west. The experience for our group I think is different from most k posters as it seems most of you own real estate near the mountain. There was an obvious decline.

B) Deals at K for lodging and skiing packages have for almost 10 ot 12 years been far more expensive than area mountains. I have been attacked on this subject before but believe me when I tell you I could get skiing and lodging packages at most competing mountains at least 30% cheaper than K.

C) The intermediate skiers in the group when exposed to other mountains had no interest in returning to Killington. they felt that the mountain trailed the other mountains in snowmaking, and grooming and lacked trails that allowed them to ski top to bottom uninterrupted by trail crossings etc.

D) Snowboarders in the group felt that it really lacked in its committment to them with snowboard parks and half pipe construction and the trail layouts had way to much flat traverses.


E) Now, we are out of the habit of skiing at K, so something would have to happen to win the group back, given the economy our trips are less frequent and would give up 12 days of skiing on the east coast to ski out west 5 or 6 days.

So looking at the list its all of the above to some degree.

Marketing 101, let's say, third day of class: It is easier and less costly to retain existing customers than to obtain new ones.

Obviously, K-Marketing skipped class that day. (Or skipped the course entirely.)

[aware4444]

"Marketing 101, let's say, third day of class: It is easier and less costly to retain existing customers than to obtain new ones.

Obviously, K-Marketing skipped class that day. (Or skipped the course entirely.)"

There's a certain level of arogance in these types of statements whether intentional or not. The assumption seems to be that one knows all and everything and can't accept to any degree that anyone else has the slightest clue. I would think that there are at least a few people at every ski area in the world that would clean the clocks of the ones that think that they possess the ultimate answer to everything.

[Bubba]

"Marketing 101, let's say, third day of class: It is easier and less costly to retain existing customers than to obtain new ones.

Obviously, K-Marketing skipped class that day. (Or skipped the course entirely.)"

There's a certain level of arogance in these types of statements whether intentional or not. The assumption seems to be that one knows all and everything and can't accept to any degree that anyone else has the slightest clue. I would think that there are at least a few people at every ski area in the world that would clean the clocks of the ones that think that they possess the ultimate answer to everything.

Actually, there's no arrogance in the the statement "It is easier and less costly to retain existing customers than to obtain new ones", only in the way it was presented.

It is a maxim of marketing that customer retention is far less costly than customer acquisition, often to a factor of 8 - 10 times more costly for customer acquisition. Killington, during its years of demise under ASC, at least had an excuse for losing customers. Powdr, on the other hand, made a conscious decision to drive lower paying customers away and focus on yield per customer rather than try to retain their customers and gradually improve yield through pricing. Now, in a down economy, Killington is having to reduce prices to maintain visits through the remainder of this season, obviously having lost customers and now losing yield.

[JerseyGuy]

"Marketing 101, let's say, third day of class: It is easier and less costly to retain existing customers than to obtain new ones.

Obviously, K-Marketing skipped class that day. (Or skipped the course entirely.)"

There's a certain level of arogance in these types of statements whether intentional or not. The assumption seems to be that one knows all and everything and can't accept to any degree that anyone else has the slightest clue. I would think that there are at least a few people at every ski area in the world that would clean the clocks of the ones that think that they possess the ultimate answer to everything.

Sorry, dude. Didn't mean to insult you and your fellow K-Marketers.

No, wait... of course I did! Belay that apology... and by the way, which of your fellow Killington employees would clean my clock? You?

[Gutts]

These are not entirely my view points, but things that one might find as turn offs to Killington. Remember Killington is a hype machine and when you don't live up to the hype it can leave a less than positive feeling for people. This is from the person looking to make a couple visits, the random day tripper, the person willing to spend $82 a couple times a year. I am guessing this who we are talking about.

-3000 Vertical ft, the few trails that do achieve this are flat for significant portions. Most good skiing happens with about 1100-1500 feet of vertical (as with most eastern resorts).
-Snowfall, yes they can get dumped on, but there always seems to be a hiccup.....ie r*in, really bad wind, etc. Making a good dumping nothing to write home about. For instance this year is up over 200 inches............it feels like an 80 inch season up there.
-The crowds really put a beating on the trails causing icing and less than desirable conditions after the morning hours.
-The view, nothing to write home about...........whatever those town homes are near sunrise are perhaps the most hidious things on the planet........sorry to those of you who live there, but it looks like a city subdivision. Not sure why they cleared all the trees out and replaced them with huge homes and shrubs.......It also appears that a similar housing complex is going up near the entrance of the access road. Just looks odd for someone looking for a "moutain getaway".
-200 trails (not that this would matter to somebody that is day tripping a couple times a year). Killington has 125-130 trails. Pico makes up the rest. They are two distinctly seperate mountains.
-Flat spots and cross cuts. There are many this can be particularly frustrating for the people who choose to ride.
-The access road looks like a dump. I personally like it that way, but for those looking for there "piece of vermont", imaginary and made up, this is not what they picture.
-Hotels are quite dumpy.........I guess the happens when you are the apres ski capital of the east if not the US.
-The lodges are ugly.
-It isn't a the largest Ski Resort in the East (this may just be incorrect number, and they may be).
-They don't have the longest season in the east anymore.


One thing I can dispell for those newcomers, lines, what lines..........Killington is a relatively uncrowed mountain with few lift lines. I love the fact that I get tons of runs in.......after all that is the most important thing to me.