The New K50 Lift Ticket @ Killington

[JerseyGuy]

We all castigated powdr because they blacked out New Years last year and nobody showed up. Now we're upset this year that new years isn't blacked out?

Or did I miss something here? I thought new years day was one of the lightest days of the year(like thanksgiving day)

Ain't no "we're" here... the only one complaining is Geoff. Of course, he'd rather that every day was blacked out... the ongoing detoxification of Killington, you know.

[SnoBrdr]

We all castigated powdr because they blacked out New Years last year and nobody showed up. Now we're upset this year that new years isn't blacked out?

Or did I miss something here? I thought new years day was one of the lightest days of the year(like thanksgiving day)

Ain't no "we're" here... the only one complaining is Geoff. Of course, he'd rather that every day was blacked out... the ongoing detoxification of Killington, you know.

I thought it was great that it was blacked out.

But opening it up is ok, most people don't get out early on NYD.

[Highway Star]

This could help bring people back into the fold. I'm hoping it will, because if Powdr sees that lowering prices and increasing services brings in more money for them, then maybe they'll continue to make similar changes. I guess we'll see! Let's be fair at this time, though, and give Killington credit for starting to swing the pendulum the other way, and for starting to reverse some of the dumbest business decisions I've ever seen.

Usually I agree with salesmanny, but this is somewhat absurd. Evidently, POWDR's campain of reduced expectations has worked with supprising effectiveness. In reality, we aren't any better off as Killington customers than we were 3-4 years ago (with a broke ASC), except now we are paying 70% more for a pass, etc, etc.

How about 10 years ago? Not even a comparison.

But let's give POWDR credit for not being absolutely horrible.........

The low pass prices you talk about were very nice but lets face it, they were never realistic in the long term.

Never saw numbers but the feeling always was that so many people would buy a very cheap pass and then wouldn't show up all that much. But as I recall they did and some weekends you couldn't move.

But then again the pass now is actually less than it was about 10 years ago.

The profit numbers are out there. Killington was solidly profitable (operating profit) by industry standards with the all4one pass pricing, even though their ticket/pass yield per visit was ~$30. However, at least the people showed up, and spent more money on food, in the bars, lodging, etc, etc.

[Geoff]

We all castigated powdr because they blacked out New Years last year and nobody showed up. Now we're upset this year that new years isn't blacked out?

Or did I miss something here? I thought new years day was one of the lightest days of the year(like thanksgiving day)

I'm not talking about New Years Day since that's always light. New Years Day is on a Friday. I'm amazed that the Saturday and Sunday (January 2 and January 3) aren't blacked out. It's going to be jammed. They instead opted to black out Presidents Week midweek days. Killington is pretty empty those days.

[salesmanny]

I think that Powdr needs to address several important issues if they ever want to once again see Killington regain its leadership position in the ski industry here in the northeast:
They must ENCOURAGE families, not discourage them. By raising lesson prices as they did, I'm willing to bet that Powdr lost a lot of potential future business, and effectively sent a substantial amount of business to other local mountains. It's hard to grow your business by shrinking your base, and eventually in an economy such as this, it has to catch up to you. I believe that right from the start, Powdr misunderstood almost everything about what had made Killington "the beast of the east." They jacked up lesson prices, thinking they could charge more and draw a wealthier and more elite customer without losing anything in the process, but it apparently didn't work out that way. The fallacy of their logic was that while they alienated and lost many of their base customers, they don't appear to have successfully replenished the lost revenue with a new, wealthier customer base. Result: an apparent net loss, both in customers and in revenue.

I believe that the ski resorts need to encourage families, because the youth of today are the customers of tomorrow. If I were in charge at Powdr, I'd REDUCE price of lessons for kids, not make them so expensive that families are discouraged from coming to Killington. I would offer family packages that include lift passes for both parents and kids for at least 2 days each (a weekend package), and part of that package would include very low priced lessons for the kids for both days. If powdr also wants to also offer lessons with small class sizes at a higher price, that could ALSO be offered, but I would definitely not make that my only option.

When Powdr took over, they did away with most discounted passes. I'm not only talking about season's passes; they also did away with ski club discounts and other discounts. Two years ago, I skied Sugarbush and Mt Snow a lot more than I skied Killington, and that was a direct result of Powdr's policies. I obviously wasn't alone in my dislike of what Powdr was doing, because Powdr reversed their policy regarding discounted passes and the length of the season, among other things. Last year they finally realized that opening early and closing late in the season are important issues to many of us. I think they're trying to gain back some of the customers that they previously alienated. I'd be interested to see if they extend the season even more this year.

In sum: Powdr is again offering discounts, they've extended the season somewhat (at least last year they did, compared to the previous year), and they say they're going to reduce the price of some of the kid's lesson packages (how much remains to be announced). I like the direction they're going, and I hope they continue to respond to the voice of their loyal customers.

[MrsG]

"thinking they could charge more and draw a wealthier and more elite customer"

Salesmanny, this is not directed to you - just using your comment . . . but, could someone please explain to me what "wealthier and more elite" means here . . . we live in New England - New Englanders - rich or poor, are the tightest people in the country - have you ever looked at how our "wealthier and more elite" dress when not working - those Westerners(sp) need to learn that true yankees (those in New England) are cheap . . .

Edit: My bad, I guess they want New Yorkers

[salesmanny]

"thinking they could charge more and draw a wealthier and more elite customer"

Salesmanny, this is not directed to you - just using your comment . . . but, could someone please explain to me what "wealthier and more elite" means here . . . we live in New England - New Englanders - rich or poor, are the tightest people in the country - have you ever looked at how our "wealthier and more elite" dress when not working - those Westerners(sp) need to learn that true yankees (those in New England) are cheap . . .

Edit: My bad, I guess they want New Yorkers

Mrs G,
What I meant to say was that I believe Powdr's original plan was charge more, drive away the students and others who didn't have as much disposable income, and get a wealthier clientelle overall. They wanted smaller crowds that would spend more money during each visit. I think Powdr management felt that if they could achieve that, then they could cut their costs and maximize their profits, because with smaller crowds they wouldn't need as many workers, and they wouldn't have to discount anything. I also believe that Powdr felt that if they could attract the wealthier customers, they would have a better chance of selling their multi-million dollar trophy homes. My comment was not geared toward anyone in this forum; it was just my thoughts about the customer Powdr was trying to appeal to, and why.

[SnoBrdr]

"thinking they could charge more and draw a wealthier and more elite customer"

Salesmanny, this is not directed to you - just using your comment . . . but, could someone please explain to me what "wealthier and more elite" means here . . . we live in New England - New Englanders - rich or poor, are the tightest people in the country - have you ever looked at how our "wealthier and more elite" dress when not working - those Westerners(sp) need to learn that true yankees (those in New England) are cheap . . .

Edit: My bad, I guess they want New Yorkers

Mrs G,
What I meant to say was that I believe Powdr's original plan was charge more, drive away the students and others who didn't have as much disposable income, and get a wealthier clientelle overall. They wanted smaller crowds that would spend more money during each visit. I think Powdr management felt that if they could achieve that, then they could cut their costs and maximize their profits, because with smaller crowds they wouldn't need as many workers, and they wouldn't have to discount anything. I also believe that Powdr felt that if they could attract the wealthier customers, they would have a better chance of selling their multi-million dollar trophy homes. My comment was not geared toward anyone in this forum; it was just my thoughts about the customer Powdr was trying to appeal to, and why.

Drive away the students? You jest.

For what they charge for a student type pass, everyone in college and/or high school should have one.

So many multi million dollars home did Powdr build?

[MrsG]

Ok, my joke went awry . . .

[Geoff]

"thinking they could charge more and draw a wealthier and more elite customer"

Salesmanny, this is not directed to you - just using your comment . . . but, could someone please explain to me what "wealthier and more elite" means here . . . we live in New England - New Englanders - rich or poor, are the tightest people in the country - have you ever looked at how our "wealthier and more elite" dress when not working - those Westerners(sp) need to learn that true yankees (those in New England) are cheap . . .

Edit: My bad, I guess they want New Yorkers

Mrs G,
What I meant to say was that I believe Powdr's original plan was charge more, drive away the students and others who didn't have as much disposable income, and get a wealthier clientelle overall. They wanted smaller crowds that would spend more money during each visit. I think Powdr management felt that if they could achieve that, then they could cut their costs and maximize their profits, because with smaller crowds they wouldn't need as many workers, and they wouldn't have to discount anything. I also believe that Powdr felt that if they could attract the wealthier customers, they would have a better chance of selling their multi-million dollar trophy homes. My comment was not geared toward anyone in this forum; it was just my thoughts about the customer Powdr was trying to appeal to, and why.

Drive away the students? You jest.

For what they charge for a student type pass, everyone in college and/or high school should have one.

So many multi million dollars home did Powdr build?

POWDR doesn't own the land. The Texas Boys SP Land own the land.

Anybody driving up the Access Road and looking at Killington's base lodge facilities could tell at a glance that Killington won't appeal to the wealthy. The resort is run down. The lodging in town is run down. Restaurants charge city prices for dubious quality. It certainly ain't Stowe. With a 7 month ski season, a wrecking ball to the base lodges, and enough activities in the summer to keep restaurants open year-round, that might change. Today, Killington is not a very good value. 2 nights in a hotel, 2 days of skiing, and 3 meals per day in the restaurants is a serious amount of coin. Until the quality level improves, a business plan that tries to take the resort upmarket is unlikely to succeed. Little surprise we're now seeing lift ticket deals and a drop in kid pricing.

[tyrolean_skier]

We all castigated powdr because they blacked out New Years last year and nobody showed up. Now we're upset this year that new years isn't blacked out?

Or did I miss something here? I thought new years day was one of the lightest days of the year(like thanksgiving day)

New Year's Day was always a great day to ski (because of lack of people) but I would say the last 4 New Years Days have been shitty days to ski and I can vouch for that since I've skied on all of them. Not the mountains fault but Mother Nature's.

[Dancing Queen]

"thinking they could charge more and draw a wealthier and more elite customer"

Salesmanny, this is not directed to you - just using your comment . . . but, could someone please explain to me what "wealthier and more elite" means here . . . we live in New England - New Englanders - rich or poor, are the tightest people in the country - have you ever looked at how our "wealthier and more elite" dress when not working - those Westerners(sp) need to learn that true yankees (those in New England) are cheap . . .

Edit: My bad, I guess they want New Yorkers

Mrs G,
What I meant to say was that I believe Powdr's original plan was charge more, drive away the students and others who didn't have as much disposable income, and get a wealthier clientelle overall. They wanted smaller crowds that would spend more money during each visit. I think Powdr management felt that if they could achieve that, then they could cut their costs and maximize their profits, because with smaller crowds they wouldn't need as many workers, and they wouldn't have to discount anything. I also believe that Powdr felt that if they could attract the wealthier customers, they would have a better chance of selling their multi-million dollar trophy homes. My comment was not geared toward anyone in this forum; it was just my thoughts about the customer Powdr was trying to appeal to, and why.

Drive away the students? You jest.

For what they charge for a student type pass, everyone in college and/or high school should have one.

So many multi million dollars home did Powdr build?

POWDR doesn't own the land. The Texas Boys SP Land own the land.

It certainly ain't Stowe.

That's an understatement!

[Geoff]

New Year's Day was always a great day to ski (because of lack of people) but I would say the last 4 New Years Days have been shitty days to ski and I can vouch for that since I've skied on all of them. Not the mountains fault but Mother Nature's.

Jeez. Two years ago, New Years Day was fantastic. It snowed all day and pretty much everybody left by noon. At 4:00, there was over a foot of fresh snow on the ground after at least 6" the day before.

Here's the thread and you posted to it: http://www.killingtonzone.com/forums/vi ... a&start=15

[ski]

POWDR doesn't own the land. The Texas Boys SP Land own the land.

Anybody driving up the Access Road and looking at Killington's base lodge facilities could tell at a glance that Killington won't appeal to the wealthy. The resort is run down. The lodging in town is run down. Restaurants charge city prices for dubious quality. It certainly ain't Stowe. With a 7 month ski season, a wrecking ball to the base lodges, and enough activities in the summer to keep restaurants open year-round, that might change. Today, Killington is not a very good value. 2 nights in a hotel, 2 days of skiing, and 3 meals per day in the restaurants is a serious amount of coin. Until the quality level improves, a business plan that tries to take the resort upmarket is unlikely to succeed. Little surprise we're now seeing lift ticket deals and a drop in kid pricing.

Well said . . the crux of the biscuit

[tyrolean_skier]

New Year's Day was always a great day to ski (because of lack of people) but I would say the last 4 New Years Days have been shitty days to ski and I can vouch for that since I've skied on all of them. Not the mountains fault but Mother Nature's.

Jeez. Two years ago, New Years Day was fantastic. It snowed all day and pretty much everybody left by noon. At 4:00, there was over a foot of fresh snow on the ground after at least 6" the day before.

Here's the thread and you posted to it: http://www.killingtonzone.com/forums/vi ... a&start=15

Obviously, my memory failed me on that one. Duh!! I know that this past one I had to drag my family to take a few runs and they would only do so if I promised to go to the movies in the afternoon. Another year, we had one of those r*in/freeze days. I definitely would not mind another one like the one mentioned in that thread you referenced. I need to get back to taking the Ginkgo Biloba on a regular basis.