Cap-Ex

[Goat]

Someone mentioned this previously, but why do they not sanction hiking to the top of Ram's Head? What happens if they see you hiking up there anyway? Does ski patrol get on you or do they not care? Looks like some fun terrain.

[Geoff]

It was past there that they wanted to expand to way back when into the Parker's Gore area but it was a bear habitat and they got shot down. I doubt we will see K expand past the south ridge as it is now any time soon. Plus the next trail expansion they do will most likely be the interconnect.

They don't even have to do the whole interconnect at once. They could just expand north from Rams Head and still keep the two areas separate for a few more years instead of trying to bite the whole apple. The walkway shows they are interested in low cost yet functional ideas to expand their business. You could do just one lift from Pico Pond area to Rams Head peak to start, and concentrate on cutting blue cruisers and glades.

That would be a southeast-facing lift. The more practical thing would be to cut in a lift on the north side of Rams Head. That would hold snow better. You could do a surface lift up the totally flat upper part of the pipeline trail to get you over to Pico. It's higher elevation so it holds snow better.

I figure the next trail expansion they will do is after they install the Snowdon high speed quad. They'll chainsaw the top section of Low Rider to have a trail parallel to Chute that feeds into upper Great Bear.

Wild Turkey time? I'm almost out.

I'd be happy to buy you a bottle but it's inevitable.... Killington will turn the Snowdon basin into Okemo eventually. The top of Low Rider is intermediate. It will see chainsaws some day.

Do you want 80 or 101?

[Highway Star]

It was past there that they wanted to expand to way back when into the Parker's Gore area but it was a bear habitat and they got shot down. I doubt we will see K expand past the south ridge as it is now any time soon. Plus the next trail expansion they do will most likely be the interconnect.

They don't even have to do the whole interconnect at once. They could just expand north from Rams Head and still keep the two areas separate for a few more years instead of trying to bite the whole apple. The walkway shows they are interested in low cost yet functional ideas to expand their business. You could do just one lift from Pico Pond area to Rams Head peak to start, and concentrate on cutting blue cruisers and glades.

That would be a southeast-facing lift. The more practical thing would be to cut in a lift on the north side of Rams Head. That would hold snow better. You could do a surface lift up the totally flat upper part of the pipeline trail to get you over to Pico. It's higher elevation so it holds snow better.

I figure the next trail expansion they will do is after they install the Snowdon high speed quad. They'll chainsaw the top section of Low Rider to have a trail parallel to Chute that feeds into upper Great Bear.

Wild Turkey time? I'm almost out.

I'd be happy to buy you a bottle but it's inevitable.... Killington will turn the Snowdon basin into Okemo eventually. The top of Low Rider is intermediate. It will see chainsaws some day.

Do you want 80 or 101?

Upper snowdon already has 5 beginner/intermediate trails off the top, plus two traverses. They would be insane to touch anything in the snowdon bowl. And if they even considered it, you could contest the ACT 250 and any other permitting required.

The major, major issue on snowdon is the mixing bowl and bowling alley intersections. There's got to be at least a half dozen ways that could be improved.

Lower mouse run is also a complete waste, and should be replacing the lower bunny buster as the main return trail.

[rogman]

I figure the next trail expansion they will do is after they install the Snowdon high speed quad. They'll chainsaw the top section of Low Rider to have a trail parallel to Chute that feeds into upper Great Bear.

Troll!

[mediamogul]

It was past there that they wanted to expand to way back when into the Parker's Gore area but it was a bear habitat and they got shot down. I doubt we will see K expand past the south ridge as it is now any time soon. Plus the next trail expansion they do will most likely be the interconnect.

They don't even have to do the whole interconnect at once. They could just expand north from Rams Head and still keep the two areas separate for a few more years instead of trying to bite the whole apple. The walkway shows they are interested in low cost yet functional ideas to expand their business. You could do just one lift from Pico Pond area to Rams Head peak to start, and concentrate on cutting blue cruisers and glades.

That would be a southeast-facing lift. The more practical thing would be to cut in a lift on the north side of Rams Head. That would hold snow better. You could do a surface lift up the totally flat upper part of the pipeline trail to get you over to Pico. It's higher elevation so it holds snow better.

I figure the next trail expansion they will do is after they install the Snowdon high speed quad. They'll chainsaw the top section of Low Rider to have a trail parallel to Chute that feeds into upper Great Bear.

Wild Turkey time? I'm almost out.

I'd be happy to buy you a bottle but it's inevitable.... Killington will turn the Snowdon basin into Okemo eventually. The top of Low Rider is intermediate. It will see chainsaws some day.

Do you want 80 or 101?

Upper snowdon already has 5 beginner/intermediate trails off the top, plus two traverses. They would be insane to touch anything in the snowdon bowl. And if they even considered it, you could contest the ACT 250 and any other permitting required.

The major, major issue on snowdon is the mixing bowl and bowling alley intersections. There's got to be at least a half dozen ways that could be improved.

Lower mouse run is also a complete waste, and should be replacing the lower bunny buster as the main return trail.

I completely agree. Snowdon is already a mess with trails mixing in a god awful way. Imagine a HSQ adding more people to that mess.

The Snowdon bowl, in my opinion, should remain natural snow/ungroomed. At least Vagabond, Northstar and Great Bear. Its an area that really collects and holds snow well and it would be a shame to see regular grooming and snowmaking added to that.

[skiingsnow]

john cumming on twitter:

"Reflecting on a good week of planning for resort improvements. I think we have some good ideas. Suggestions welcome."

[jimmywilson69]

Two ways to take that. 1 they care about their customers opinions. 2 they don't have a clue how to plan for their business.

I'll let the court of kzone decide...

[tt431]

Two ways to take that. 1 they care about their customers opinions. 2 they don't have a clue how to plan for their business.

I'll let the court of kzone decide...

3rd one: He wants customers to feel he gives an F about them. FYI: This Corp. is all business. Spreadsheet has already dictated what improvements if any we'll see next season.

[Mister Moose]

I find myself wondering why, in the middle of the largest recession in 65 years when labor and materials are available and cheaper, is POWDR not agressively investing more in Killington.

► Killington has lost a significant market share, and could work harder to recapture some of that through fixing what drove them away.

► There are many projects which need to be done, all of which have been discussed here many times. You can argue which one should be next, but why have there been no significant projects since the lift upgrade of the Skye Peak HSQ?

►If you have the wallet, you buy when prices are down and invest for where you see the business going in the future.

► There is much that can be done outside of the whole "Village" dilema while that is plodding along at a virtual stand-still.

► Rather than invest in Killington, POWDR invested in another resort, Copper.

That leaves me to think that:

◙ POWDR cannot invest further due to limited capital at its disposal.
or
◙ POWDR will not invest although able due to lack of long term viabilty of the lease or the
partnership agreement, or their view of the long term snow resort marketplace.
or
◙ POWDR does not believe significant resort renovation will yield a worthwhile economic return.
or
◙ POWDR has a super secret 'area 51' plan that they just haven't disclosed yet.

I'm thinking a combination of the second and third is most likely. We have said it before. POWDR is not behaving as an autonomous owner that believes in the strength of his product.

[Ski_the_Moguls]

Okay, you guys are really starting to p!ss me off!
Seriously, Killington is not falling apart at the seems as many of you suggest. I used to ski K a lot in college (1980's, sigh...) And I loved it. Mainly for Bear Mountain. When I graduated and started doing trips with my wife's beginner friends I switched to Okemo because I felt the K-zoo was too much. Then came children and I still avoided The Beast as being too crazy for my young kids. Last year my daughter joined her High School race team and we were looking for a place to ski early season. We went to Okemo on a Saturday and then Killington Sunday. OMG, the difference was startling. She could not understand why I had avoided K all those years, and frankly neither could I. She loved the 4 waffle cabins, high speed lifts and better surface conditions on a greater variety of terrain. I loved the challenging terrain I had all but forgotten about and the way the crowds were so easy to avoid on such a nicely spread out set of mountains. At most mountains you have one face and mother nature decides just how cold or windy it is. At K you can get warm at Bear, cold at K peak, windy at Skye, perfect at Snowdon. Arriving at the mountain late on a weekend morning. No problem, just park at Bear or the GN trail lot above Ramshead. What other big mountain lets you park so close? Lunch time? So many lodges it is easy to find a seat somewhere. You guys lament the loss of crowds but I love it. I gotta ask you all, before trashing K, where do you think things are really any better?

[rogman]

I find myself wondering why, in the middle of the largest recession in 65 years when labor and materials are available and cheaper, is POWDR not agressively investing more in Killington.

► Killington has lost a significant market share, and could work harder to recapture some of that through fixing what drove them away.

► There are many projects which need to be done, all of which have been discussed here many times. You can argue which one should be next, but why have there been no significant projects since the lift upgrade of the Skye Peak HSQ?

►If you have the wallet, you buy when prices are down and invest for where you see the business going in the future.

► There is much that can be done outside of the whole "Village" dilema while that is plodding along at a virtual stand-still.

► Rather than invest in Killington, POWDR invested in another resort, Copper.

That leaves me to think that:

◙ POWDR cannot invest further due to limited capital at its disposal.
or
◙ POWDR will not invest although able due to lack of long term viabilty of the lease or the
partnership agreement, or their view of the long term snow resort marketplace.
or
◙ POWDR does not believe significant resort renovation will yield a worthwhile economic return.
or
◙ POWDR has a super secret 'area 51' plan that they just haven't disclosed yet.

I'm thinking a combination of the second and third is most likely. We have said it before. POWDR is not behaving as an autonomous owner that believes in the strength of his product.

POWDR has limited capital. If they had more, they'd have put it to work, you don't leave money lying around fallow. It so happens they chose to put their limited resources into Copper, and not their existing resorts. You can buy a ski lift anytime, however an asset like Copper is only available when the owner wants to sell. Presumably they paid a fire sale price because of Intrawest's dire financial straights. I've questioned the wisdom of purchasing an area with aging infrastructure that has to compete against the Vail behemoth, but I haven't seen the books, either. It is what it is.

[rogman]

Killington is not falling apart at the seems as many of you suggest.

Sew it seams you haven't taken a close look at the Peak Lodge. Even Nyberg has stated its falling down.

[Ski_the_Moguls]

Killington is not falling apart at the seems as many of you suggest.

Sew it seams you haven't taken a close look at the Peak Lodge. Even Nyberg has stated its falling down.

My other two favorite mountains are Jay and Sugarloaf. Jay's top tram terminal used to have a restaurant but no more. Empty and depressing. Sugarloaf's old gondola top is also devoid of any skiers. At least Killington HAS a Peak restaurant. Yeah, it should be rebuilt, but is there another Eastern area with a better one?

[Ski_the_Moguls]

[/quote]... They would be insane to touch anything in the snowden bowl. And if they even considered it, you could contest the ACT 250 and any other permitting required ...
[/quote]
Maybe we could get the Snowden bowl listed as an official historical area and then they would not be able to change it!? But I must admit, when I do venture over there I normally have to watch out for the rocks and thin spots. It would not bother me at all if they added a bit of snowmaking base at the start of the season. Just enough to lock in the rocks. Then leave it natural. Ice is bad but rocks are worse.

[VermontGranola]

Two or three new snowcats (to replacing current aging groomers), more replacement snowmaking pipe, a few additional automated snowguns (cuts down on labor), paint and mulch are all we will see at Killington this summer. $3 million only goes so far!