Large condo fire in Killington

[junior]

Are the condo complexes at K required to have a sprinkler system in every room? I know at our place down in Pittsford we were required to put one in several years ago at a substantial cost.

No.

Well they should. We even had to put in a second water line to the house dedicated for just the sprinkler system. We also have the Y connection outside for the fire department to hook up to.

I know we got rig of all the wood burning fireplaces years ago, just because of the fires they had at Mt. Green.

18 Wheeler or Box Truck?

[SnoBrdr]

From today's Rutland Herald:

Steve Finer, former Killington fire chief, said the Killington Townhouses didn’t have a sprinkler system to fight any potential fires.

He said the building “predates requirements.”

Wish they would have said what the current requirements" are.

[ejrides]

From today's Rutland Herald:

Steve Finer, former Killington fire chief, said the Killington Townhouses didn’t have a sprinkler system to fight any potential fires.

He said the building “predates requirements.”

Wish they would have said what the current requirements" are.

I don't know how much help a sprinkler system is with a chimney fire. Once it starts and the chimney starts to fail, the wood structure (behind walls) and roof will ignite.

As for the fire itself, I had a front row seat, I live across the street. FD was great. It appeared from where we sat that they were trying to contain it and not extinguish it. Shortly after 1am, building C was already down, D was on the way, and they were focussed on B. It appears their goal was to keep A from catching (which they did). We put up 8 people who were displaced by the fire so we had first hand reports. One family was directly below the unit where it started and were able to get most of their stuff out. Another gentleman lost everything including his credit cards and cell phone; he showed up in sneakers with no socks. He was trying to figure out how he was going to be able to fly from CT back to FL. Another family from Montreal was able to get back into A and retrieve their belongings around 11am Saturday morning (accompanied by FD). As for the FD, the tankers were running all night long, lined up on the access road continually filling the pools. From our vantage, once they got the water flowing, it was continuous.

[picnic]

not many posts from me in the last few years. I'm a snowbird now, not in Snowbird. My ski club has a house in Mendon that sleeps about 50-55. In 1988, I was president and the club was inspected by the local fire marshall for violations and code upgrades. Other clubs in the area also were inspected. We were required to install sprinklers, actuator panel, metal, self closing doors throughout the house. Lots of grumbling at club meetings, but what can you do? Our club bit the bullet for the $10-15K the job cost. We have several carpenters who are members who hung the doors. A local fire sprinkler company did that system. Looking back, it was worth the comfort level to know the building was safer.

Another local club got the same inspection. Their club was much larger and many more members. Their upgrade pricetag was 6X ours according to some of the members I talked to.

Hope you are all having a great year. Take a run for me

[steamboat1]

not many posts from me in the last few years. I'm a snowbird now, not in Snowbird. My ski club has a house in Mendon that sleeps about 50-55. In 1988, I was president and the club was inspected by the local fire marshall for violations and code upgrades. Other clubs in the area also were inspected. We were required to install sprinklers, actuator panel, metal, self closing doors throughout the house. Lots of grumbling at club meetings, but what can you do? Our club bit the bullet for the $10-15K the job cost. We have several carpenters who are members who hung the doors. A local fire sprinkler company did that system. Looking back, it was worth the comfort level to know the building was safer.

Another local club got the same inspection. Their club was much larger and many more members. Their upgrade pricetag was 6X ours according to some of the members I talked to.

Hope you are all having a great year. Take a run for me

I guess it took them a little longer to catch up to us. Like I said our club was forced to put in a sprinkler system only 2-3 years ago. They did require us make all the bedroom doors in the house self closing but didn't require us to install metal doors. The house has a lot of beautiful woodwork inside including the doors. Would've been a shame if we had to take them out.

[SnoBrdr]

From today's Rutland Herald:

Steve Finer, former Killington fire chief, said the Killington Townhouses didn’t have a sprinkler system to fight any potential fires.

He said the building “predates requirements.”

Wish they would have said what the current requirements" are.

I don't know how much help a sprinkler system is with a chimney fire. Once it starts and the chimney starts to fail, the wood structure (behind walls) and roof will ignite.

As for the fire itself, I had a front row seat, I live across the street. FD was great. It appeared from where we sat that they were trying to contain it and not extinguish it. Shortly after 1am, building C was already down, D was on the way, and they were focussed on B. It appears their goal was to keep A from catching (which they did). We put up 8 people who were displaced by the fire so we had first hand reports. One family was directly below the unit where it started and were able to get most of their stuff out. Another gentleman lost everything including his credit cards and cell phone; he showed up in sneakers with no socks. He was trying to figure out how he was going to be able to fly from CT back to FL. Another family from Montreal was able to get back into A and retrieve their belongings around 11am Saturday morning (accompanied by FD). As for the FD, the tankers were running all night long, lined up on the access road continually filling the pools. From our vantage, once they got the water flowing, it was continuous.

The fire at Stratton was a chimney fire and they claim that the sprinklers were a great help and limited the damage.

[ejrides]

The fire at Stratton was a chimney fire and they claim that the sprinklers were a great help and limited the damage.

No, I believe the article you referenced said

Later in the day, an e-mail from Stratton Mountain Resort officials stated that the fire was contained to Grizzly's kitchen and was put out with help from local fire companies, Stratton employees and the sprinkler system.

I'm not suggesting that sprinklers aren't a good idea, but depending on the chimney fire it may not be much help if it sets wooden structural walls and roofs on fire where there are no sprinkler heads present.

[SnoBrdr]

The fire at Stratton was a chimney fire and they claim that the sprinklers were a great help and limited the damage.

No, I believe the article you referenced said

Later in the day, an e-mail from Stratton Mountain Resort officials stated that the fire was contained to Grizzly's kitchen and was put out with help from local fire companies, Stratton employees and the sprinkler system.

I'm not suggesting that sprinklers aren't a good idea, but depending on the chimney fire it may not be much help if it sets wooden structural walls and roofs on fire where there are no sprinkler heads present.

Please read the WHOLE article: STRATTON >> A chimney fire damaged sections of the Stratton Mountain base lodge Tuesday morning.

That was the 1st line of the article.

[brownman]

It's our experience, State Fire Marshall inspections, on the guise of safety, are woefully inadequate and fail on basic elements.
A few years ago, based on a disastrous fire at an Ascutney property, the Asst Fire Marshall shows up and does a fire inspection.
Apparently, this Ascustney fire started as a result of some idiot discarding briquettes on a 2nd story wooden slat porch. Go figure.

Our old chimney has had problems over time, but the marshall didn't once check our chimney for soot buildup or proper draft flow.
He spent the majority of his time citing code violations including a hard-wired smoke detector system, gfi circuitry everywhere and proper ballusters to prevent my wife and I from falling from the loft. He stopped short of specifying new replacements to our 16" wide casement windows, and let us 'slide' on our staircases being 2" too narrow. I tried pulling the 'grandfather-clause' angle with the guy, but apparently all the grandfathers must've gone the way of all things. Bewildered, we went ahead and met the code stuff.

Others in our neighborhood also did these safety improvements. The local electricians got some steady work. That winter the guy up the road suffered a stove fire that took out half his house. The owner told me that the Marshall didn't once inspect his chase or flue.

I'm not blaming inspectors for these fires, but the basics need to be emphasized to people, especially winter ski-house/condo types.
Yeah, most people know you gotta sweep the flue, but the lack of any inspection of an existing flue pipe is puzzling at best.
As has been mentioned, sprinklers can help hold a fire down, but they are no match for a creosote-encrusted pipe.

Next time the Marshall or Chief shows up on your property, ask him if he has stovepipe brush with him.
For us ... no brush/no entry. Get a Warrant.

[Big Bob]

Usually condos have fireplaces, not wood stoves. Because so much air, along with your expensive heated air goes up the flue, you get very little creosote build up. The fire burns hot and doesn't produce the creosote that an airtight wood stove does. Maybe the chimney was never cleaned. From the pictures, the chimney appears to be a non masonry metal betas type. Perhaps the pipe had corroded over time.

[SnoBrdr]

Usually condos have fireplaces, not wood stoves. Because so much air, along with your expensive heated air goes up the flue, you get very little creosote build up. The fire burns hot and doesn't produce the creosote that an airtight wood stove does. Maybe the chimney was never cleaned. From the pictures, the chimney appears to be a non masonry metal betas type. Perhaps the pipe had corroded over time.

The problem with the fireplaces at our condo was that they were built in the early 70 when I guess the regulations were a lax to say the least. The fireplaces were never properly flued and were metal.

[ejrides]

The fire at Stratton was a chimney fire and they claim that the sprinklers were a great help and limited the damage.

No, I believe the article you referenced said

Later in the day, an e-mail from Stratton Mountain Resort officials stated that the fire was contained to Grizzly's kitchen and was put out with help from local fire companies, Stratton employees and the sprinkler system.

I'm not suggesting that sprinklers aren't a good idea, but depending on the chimney fire it may not be much help if it sets wooden structural walls and roofs on fire where there are no sprinkler heads present.

Please read the WHOLE article: STRATTON >> A chimney fire damaged sections of the Stratton Mountain base lodge Tuesday morning.

That was the 1st line of the article.

Did I imply somewhere that is wasn't a chimney fire? I think you need to go back and re-read what I wrote, and your response. All I said was that I don't think sprinklers would help much in a chimney fire, and you countered that "sprinklers were a great help and limited the damage at Stratton". Nowhere in the article does it say or imply that. The only reference to sprinklers is what I quoted above.

[Skivt2]

As a result of the Labor Day week storm that blew the roofs off the two condo buildings at Pico, the chimney's were inspected with cameras. The majority in building C failed and as a result the fireplaces are condemned. The official stance is that the storm caused the pipes to separate. I wonder if the pipes were already a problem prior to the storm but were identified as problems after the storm. Who knows if they were ever inspected in that manner in the past. My guess is no. The building still has no roof after 6 months and only has a big blue tarp instead. It's obvious repairs move at a glacial pace. It seems unlikely anyone will be having a safe fire soon as each unit will require expensive repairs before the fireplaces are safe. A chimney fire is certainly a concern since folks renting for the weekend may ignore the ban on burning and catch the place on fire. There are no sprinklers either. It seems like a common problem with these types of buildings.

[Mister Moose]

Here's the article Finn referenced. They had around 9 tankers shuttling water according to the chief. It was called in as chimney fire and looks like it spread very fast. Just glad no people including firefighters were hurt. Just one of those situations were they did all they could; the fire just had too big of a jump, the water shortage and cold didn't help.

http://www.rutlandherald.com/article/20 ... /1001/NEWS" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hmmm? Where's Mr. Moose and his pontification now?

I know. Tail between his legs hiding under the deck.

One more time Humpty. You. Weren't. There.

Notice the fire was called in at `11:30pm. Notice there was no time stated the 9 tankers arrived on the scene.

I watched the fire burn, and I watched the trucks set up until approximately 1:30am, and 1 aerial nozzle had no water for the first 2 hours and the second aerial nozzle had water for 30ish seconds in the first 2 hours. Why?

Again I ask, Does Killington need its own tanker? Would Grumpty care to offer his esteemed opinion on the advisability of a town of 20,000 dozens of miles from the next firehouse with many 4 story wood structures and hundreds upon hundreds of attached condos getting a tanker? Compare the advisability of a tanker vs a fountain at the slip lane parcel, Veteran Fireman Humpty.

(My home town of only 800's volunteer department had an old, purchased used tanker 35 years ago. 3 trucks in a barn. Water counts.)

[Humpty Dumpty]

Here's the article Finn referenced. They had around 9 tankers shuttling water according to the chief. It was called in as chimney fire and looks like it spread very fast. Just glad no people including firefighters were hurt. Just one of those situations were they did all they could; the fire just had too big of a jump, the water shortage and cold didn't help.

http://www.rutlandherald.com/article/20 ... /1001/NEWS" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hmmm? Where's Mr. Moose and his pontification now?

I know. Tail between his legs hiding under the deck.

One more time Humpty. You. Weren't. There.

Notice the fire was called in at `11:30pm. Notice there was no time stated the 9 tankers arrived on the scene.

I watched the fire burn, and I watched the trucks set up until approximately 1:30am, and 1 aerial nozzle had no water for the first 2 hours and the second aerial nozzle had water for 15 seconds in the first 2 hours. Why?

Again I ask, Does Killington need its own tanker? Would Grumpty care to offer his esteemed opinion on the advisability of a town of 20,000 dozens of miles from the next firehouse with many 4 story wood structures and hundreds of attached condos getting a tanker? Compare the advisability of a tanker vs a fountain at the slip lane parcel, Veteran Fireman Humpty.

(My home town of only 800's volunteer department had an old, purchased used tanker 35 years ago. 3 trucks in a barn. Water counts.)

Mr. Moose, you're far too intelligent to make yourself look so stoopid. Ass hooming you read this entire thread, it's time to cut your loses. Pick a different battle chicky monkey.