easyrider16 wrote: ↑Oct 7th, '20, 07:24
Apparently side effects of the steroid Trump was treated with include mood swings and euphoria. Makes you wonder if some of these weird tweets and this sudden withdrawal from stimulus negotiations is a result of the medication he's taking.
Not sure what walking away from the stimulus talks until after the election is supposed to accomplish at this point. Is there a realistic chance that the Republicans are going to take the house this election? It doesn't seem so. Even if they did, the new reps wouldn't sit until like January, right? So even if Trump wins the election, he's going to be in the same place with Pelosi. Maybe he thinks he's scoring political points? I would imagine it does with his hard-core supporters, but I can't imagine the moderates who are going to decide the election will see it that way.
He is walking away as the House bill has a bunch of “rewards” in it for Democratic supporters that have ZERO to do with COVID relief and Nancy and Chuck refuse to take that crap out. For it to pass the Senate, that cramp MUST come out. As it takes 60 votes for Cloture in the Senate, the Senate will not be able to craft a passable version of this unless the Democrats give up the junk in it. The Democrats believe they are better off politically blaming McConnell and Trump than actually doing something for the American people. It’s criminal that the News media is not reporting on this.
In short, its politics as usual in Washington.
So you're conceding POTUS has given up?
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XtremeJibber2001 - THE MAIN STREAM MEDIA HAS YOU COMPLETELY HYPNOTIZED. PLEASE WAKE UP AND LEARN HOW TO FILTER REALITY FROM BS NARRATIVES.
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One thing Trump has shown consistently is a total inability to work with Congress to get anything done. Even when he had a republican majority in both houses, he couldn't get a deal to repeal obamacare. On stimulus talks he has repeatedly been at odds with republican leaders in the senate. Blame Nancy all you want, but negotiation takes more then making a demand. You have to give the other side something they want, too. Trump sucks at this. The fact that some people actually believe he is a great dealmaker is one of his greatest con jobs ever.
Btw, Dickc, you haven't addressed the point of my post. Maybe Trump doesn't like all the junk in the bill, but after the election he's still going to have to deal with house democrats. They aren't going to just give him everything he wants after the election.
Also, what in Pelosi's stimulus bill specifically is so objectionable? What is it that's not being reported? And if it's not being reported, how do you know about it?
Last edited by easyrider16 on Oct 7th, '20, 11:03, edited 3 times in total.
easyrider16 wrote: ↑Oct 7th, '20, 07:24
Apparently side effects of the steroid Trump was treated with include mood swings and euphoria. Makes you wonder if some of these weird tweets and this sudden withdrawal from stimulus negotiations is a result of the medication he's taking.
Not sure what walking away from the stimulus talks until after the election is supposed to accomplish at this point. Is there a realistic chance that the Republicans are going to take the house this election? It doesn't seem so. Even if they did, the new reps wouldn't sit until like January, right? So even if Trump wins the election, he's going to be in the same place with Pelosi. Maybe he thinks he's scoring political points? I would imagine it does with his hard-core supporters, but I can't imagine the moderates who are going to decide the election will see it that way.
He is walking away as the House bill has a bunch of “rewards” in it for Democratic supporters that have ZERO to do with COVID relief and Nancy and Chuck refuse to take that crap out. For it to pass the Senate, that cramp MUST come out. As it takes 60 votes for Cloture in the Senate, the Senate will not be able to craft a passable version of this unless the Democrats give up the junk in it. The Democrats believe they are better off politically blaming McConnell and Trump than actually doing something for the American people. It’s criminal that the News media is not reporting on this.
In short, its politics as usual in Washington.
I haven't been involved in the negotiations but maybe you have. What are the specific "rewards" you are referring to?
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"I'M YELLING BECAUSE YOU DID SOMETHING COOL!" - Humpty Dumpty
"Kzone should bill you for the bandwidth you waste writing novels to try and prove a point, but end up just looking like a deranged narcissistic fool." - Deadheadskier at madhatter
"The key is to not be lame, and know it, and not give a rat's @$$ what anybody thinks......that's real cool." - Highway Star http://goo.gl/xJxo34" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"I am one of the coolest people on the internet..." - Highway Star
"I have a tiny penis...." - C-Rex
XtremeJibber2001 - THE MAIN STREAM MEDIA HAS YOU COMPLETELY HYPNOTIZED. PLEASE WAKE UP AND LEARN HOW TO FILTER REALITY FROM BS NARRATIVES.
"Your life is only interesting when you capture the best, fakest, most curated split second version." - Team Robot regarding Instagram posters
easyrider16 wrote: ↑Oct 7th, '20, 11:03
One thing Trump has shown consistently is a total inability to work with Congress to get anything done. Even when he had a republican majority in both houses, he couldn't get a deal to repeal obamacare. On stimulus talks he has repeatedly been at odds with republican leaders in the senate. Blame Nancy all you want, but negotiation takes more then making a demand. You have to give the other side something they want, too. Trump sucks at this. The fact that some people actually believe he is a great dealmaker is one of his greatest con jobs ever.
Trump had a majority in both houses in name only. Numerous votes were tanked by his republican opponents, like McCain and Romney.
I haven't read any versions of the bill, and am not going to argue the merits of it, but I do know that there are times to walk from any deal. You do not have to give in to something that is unacceptable. That is not a character flaw. In fact, I would say the opposite of you. If you stay in the ring on every deal, you are a lousy shopper and negotiator.
Mister Moose wrote: ↑Oct 7th, '20, 14:28Trump had a majority in both houses in name only. Numerous votes were tanked by his republican opponents, like McCain and Romney.
Nonsense. These are not Republicans in name only, they are moderate Republicans. Just because they disagree with you on some issues doesn't make them something other than their party affiliation. They certainly don't always vote with Democrats. No, what you're seeing here is the fact that Trump can't work with people who have any level of disagreement with him. Contrast that with someone like Reagan, who was able to work well with a Democratic Congress to get a lot done.
Mister Moose wrote: ↑Oct 7th, '20, 14:28I haven't read any versions of the bill, and am not going to argue the merits of it, but I do know that there are times to walk from any deal. You do not have to give in to something that is unacceptable. That is not a character flaw. In fact, I would say the opposite of you. If you stay in the ring on every deal, you are a lousy shopper and negotiator.
Sure but in this case he announced it via twitter while his negotiator was still meeting with Pelosi, and we have no idea why he walked away other than some vague generalities. It's not like Pelosi walked away or drew a line in the sand. Trump just gave up from what I can tell. And this is not the first time. Remember the government shutdown, when he just caved? Based on his track record as President, he's a weak negotiator. This is just one of many instances of it.
Last edited by easyrider16 on Oct 7th, '20, 15:05, edited 2 times in total.
easyrider16 wrote: ↑Oct 7th, '20, 07:24
Apparently side effects of the steroid Trump was treated with include mood swings and euphoria. Makes you wonder if some of these weird tweets and this sudden withdrawal from stimulus negotiations is a result of the medication he's taking.
Not sure what walking away from the stimulus talks until after the election is supposed to accomplish at this point. Is there a realistic chance that the Republicans are going to take the house this election? It doesn't seem so. Even if they did, the new reps wouldn't sit until like January, right? So even if Trump wins the election, he's going to be in the same place with Pelosi. Maybe he thinks he's scoring political points? I would imagine it does with his hard-core supporters, but I can't imagine the moderates who are going to decide the election will see it that way.
He is walking away as the House bill has a bunch of “rewards” in it for Democratic supporters that have ZERO to do with COVID relief and Nancy and Chuck refuse to take that crap out. For it to pass the Senate, that cramp MUST come out. As it takes 60 votes for Cloture in the Senate, the Senate will not be able to craft a passable version of this unless the Democrats give up the junk in it. The Democrats believe they are better off politically blaming McConnell and Trump than actually doing something for the American people. It’s criminal that the News media is not reporting on this.
In short, its politics as usual in Washington.
I haven't been involved in the negotiations but maybe you have. What are the specific "rewards" you are referring to?
So are you going to point to any specific issues it contains or should I just guess which parts of it that you (or the president) don't like?
It contains LOTS of money for cities and states with formulas that benefit the ones that are in poor fiscal shape, which we all know are the Democrat ones. It contains lots of other stuff too. I barely got 10% through it skimming and found things like extra money for low income hating assistance which is a Republican non starter. Ect. The stuff is in there.
Trump is giving up because he wants a slimmed down MUCH cheaper version of the bill, and the Dems are toeing their line. He is banking on not only winning in November, but gaining more Senate seats and narrowing the house majority Pelosi has. IMHO those are unrealistic expectations.
Mister Moose wrote: ↑Oct 7th, '20, 14:28Trump had a majority in both houses in name only. Numerous votes were tanked by his republican opponents, like McCain and Romney.
Nonsense. These are not Republicans in name only, they are moderate Republicans. Just because they disagree with you on some issues doesn't make them something other than their party affiliation. They certainly don't always vote with Democrats. No, what you're seeing here is the fact that Trump can't work with people who have any level of disagreement with him. Contrast that with someone like Reagan, who was able to work well with a Democratic Congress to get a lot done.
Mister Moose wrote: ↑Oct 7th, '20, 14:28I haven't read any versions of the bill, and am not going to argue the merits of it, but I do know that there are times to walk from any deal. You do not have to give in to something that is unacceptable. That is not a character flaw. In fact, I would say the opposite of you. If you stay in the ring on every deal, you are a lousy shopper and negotiator.
Sure but in this case he announced it via twitter while his negotiator was still meeting with Pelosi, and we have no idea why he walked away other than some vague generalities. It's not like Pelosi walked away or drew a line in the sand. Trump just gave up from what I can tell. And this is not the first time. Remember the government shutdown, when he just caved? Based on his track record as President, he's a weak negotiator. This is just one of many instances of it.
Did he? Seems like his bipolar kicked in later that evening and said $1200 for everyone. I'll sign it now
So are you going to point to any specific issues it contains or should I just guess which parts of it that you (or the president) don't like?
It contains LOTS of money for cities and states with formulas that benefit the ones that are in poor fiscal shape, which we all know are the Democrat ones. It contains lots of other stuff too. I barely got 10% through it skimming and found things like extra money for low income hating assistance which is a Republican non starter. Ect. The stuff is in there.
Trump is giving up because he wants a slimmed down MUCH cheaper version of the bill, and the Dems are toeing their line. He is banking on not only winning in November, but gaining more Senate seats and narrowing the house majority Pelosi has. IMHO those are unrealistic expectations.
So are you going to point to any specific issues it contains or should I just guess which parts of it that you (or the president) don't like?
It contains LOTS of money for cities and states with formulas that benefit the ones that are in poor fiscal shape, which we all know are the Democrat ones. It contains lots of other stuff too. I barely got 10% through it skimming and found things like extra money for low income hating assistance which is a Republican non starter. Ect. The stuff is in there.
Trump is giving up because he wants a slimmed down MUCH cheaper version of the bill, and the Dems are toeing their line. He is banking on not only winning in November, but gaining more Senate seats and narrowing the house majority Pelosi has. IMHO those are unrealistic expectations.
I agree with this assessment. In any negotiation, though, both sides have to give something to get a deal done. The Republicans can't expect to get rid of everything they don't like. Likewise the Democrats will have to give up on some things they're asking for. The real art of the deal is figuring out what both sides really want and what they're willing to give up. I'm fairly certain someone as experienced as Pelosi is not expecting to get everything she's asking for. In fact, she probably asked for things she was willing to give up as part of the negotiation.
In any case, this is politics, and if Trump is going to walk away from a negotiation, he needs to tell us why. Otherwise he risks looking like someone who can't get the deal done. His vague tweet didn't provide much explanation.
So are you going to point to any specific issues it contains or should I just guess which parts of it that you (or the president) don't like?
It contains LOTS of money for cities and states with formulas that benefit the ones that are in poor fiscal shape, which we all know are the Democrat ones. It contains lots of other stuff too. I barely got 10% through it skimming and found things like extra money for low income hating assistance which is a Republican non starter. Ect. The stuff is in there.
Trump is giving up because he wants a slimmed down MUCH cheaper version of the bill, and the Dems are toeing their line. He is banking on not only winning in November, but gaining more Senate seats and narrowing the house majority Pelosi has. IMHO those are unrealistic expectations.
I agree with this assessment. In any negotiation, though, both sides have to give something to get a deal done. The Republicans can't expect to get rid of everything they don't like. Likewise the Democrats will have to give up on some things they're asking for. The real art of the deal is figuring out what both sides really want and what they're willing to give up. I'm fairly certain someone as experienced as Pelosi is not expecting to get everything she's asking for. In fact, she probably asked for things she was willing to give up as part of the negotiation.
In any case, this is politics, and if Trump is going to walk away from a negotiation, he needs to tell us why. Otherwise he risks looking like someone who can't get the deal done. His vague tweet didn't provide much explanation.
IF I recall correctly, the Republicans started at 1.1T, and the Democrats started at 3.1T or maybe even 3.3T. The Republicans were only willing to go as high as 1.6T, and Pelosi demanded they go at least 2.2T. The Republicans more or less told her to go to hell at that point.
