Of course it's IKON

[daytripper]

I waited 10 minutes at Superstar then went to South Ridge and the OL chair for many line-free laps. Boo Hoo!

Again, did you ski at Killington when it was doing 1 million skier visits a year?

[snoloco]

Doesn't matter. The fact is they pulled those numbers in the past and now you want to arbitrarily cap skier visits far lower than that. Anyone who requires Ikon reservations or limits ticket sales, almost without exception had to frequently turn people away due to lack of parking. So they limit who can even gain access so that people aren't getting turned around after driving long distances to the resort. They're not doing it so an entitled local can have an empty trail. Killington is not in that situation.

[easyrider16]

I don't think you're seeing the issue. It's not about lift lines or entitled locals. It's about too many skiers on trail at any given time. When K was pulling 1 million skier visits a year it was a different mountain. There were lots more skiable acres with Sunrise, the Jug, etc. The lifts could not put as many people on the hill at the same time. Winters were colder and there were more open trails on any given weekend. Hence, the overcrowding issue that we are seeing now was not an issue then.

These last two Saturdays had crowds approaching dangerous levels. As someone else pointed out, Killington is a mountain with a lot of crossing trails and intersections, which makes overcrowding particularly dangerous. Regulating capacity on the hill does not make it a nanny state. It's a reasonable precaution just like capacity limits in buildings. How to do it is up for debate, but I think it's pretty hard to deny that there's a problem.

[Captain Hafski]

First of all, I agree it is mostly due to Ikon, especially on the busy weekend days [somewhat depends on which day has the better weather / driving conditions as it is more day trippers than ever].

Re: Trail crowding; thought it's already been said, I will repeat that trail density is a function of lift capacity. Overcrowding = longer liftlines.

Then, there's the tougher question as to why a lot of us feel it's more dangerous out there on the busy days. If you buy into the fact that lift capacity, not total people at the resort, is what dictates trail skier/rider density, then it comes down to why are so many people out there skiing so out of control, don't care about the "downhill skier", etc.? It's not just at K. Butt, I believe that the Beast gets the worst of this bunch [just like when I was younger, K was the place I wanted to ski].

[easyrider16]

Re: Trail crowding; thought it's already been said, I will repeat that trail density is a function of lift capacity. Overcrowding = longer liftlines.

Trail density is a function of lift capacity per skiable area. Fewer open trails means more crowded trails with the same lift capacity, which I think we've been seeing of late. But Killington has also increased lift capacity recently with the Bubble, NR quad, and SR quad without any increase in skiable area.

My preferred solution would be to develop the interconnect and add a trail pod or two there to increase skiable area, but I'm not sure Powdr will see the ROI there. In fact, my bet is that Powdr sees Killington as a food/beverage/hotel business with a ski hill as an attraction, so they will only care about overcrowded trails when they get punished for it, either by being sued or losing business.

[Ski_the_Moguls]

I waited 10 minutes at Superstar then went to South Ridge and the OL chair for many line-free laps. Boo Hoo!

Again, did you ski at Killington when it was doing 1 million skier visits a year?

I'd bet Snoloco was in Kindergarten the last time Killington was close to 1 million skier visits a year.

[snoloco]

First, Killington was nearly 100% open the last 2 weekends.

Second, to see any difference in trail crowding, you'd need to limit capacity by so much that the K1 and bubble are not full. Because these are among the most popular lifts, they are running full on even moderately crowded days. They need to get long lines before people start spreading out to other areas. Are you suggesting not filling all the seats on those lifts, or removing chairs/cabins to reduce capacity?

Third, it's not the same as building occupancy, which is limited by means of egress. The theoretical capacity of most ski areas is limited by parking.

[MrsG]

Think maybe tracking apps have been instrumental in some reckless skiing - most vertical, speed, etc. More people on the mountain due to Ikon, or other reasons, trying to outdo each other!

[easyrider16]

First, Killington was nearly 100% open the last 2 weekends.

Were you even there? Sure, they claimed they were nearly 100% open. But half those trails weren't skiable.

Second, to see any difference in trail crowding, you'd need to limit capacity by so much that the K1 and bubble are not full. Because these are among the most popular lifts, they are running full on even moderately crowded days. They need to get long lines before people start spreading out to other areas. Are you suggesting not filling all the seats on those lifts, or removing chairs/cabins to reduce capacity?

Third, it's not the same as building occupancy, which is limited by means of egress. The theoretical capacity of most ski areas is limited by parking.

I'm not sure if you're just purposefully being obtuse here or what, but the issue is too many people on trail at the same time. We can talk about solutions to the problem, and I think there are many possible approaches. Like I said above, my preferred solution is to increase skiable area. But you seem not to understand that there is a problem.

[daytripper]

The best thing nyburg did (maybe the only good thing) was to cut down on skier visits from the days of the bronze pass.

[throbster]

Here's an idea, don't ski on Saturdays in January if crowded slopes bother you.

[snoloco]

At Bear, it has taken too long to make snow on Upper Wildfire, which allows one to bypass the Bear Claw / Skyeburst merge. Now they are making snow there, so this shouldn't be as much of a problem.

At Snowdon, they already made improvements to the trail layout. Mouse Trap is now appropriately rated black and has warning signs preventing lower level skiers from ending up on it. They've also been pretty consistently resurfacing the high traffic intersections with the fan guns.

I'd suggest additional improvements like widening Caper after the Great Northern merge, and more consistent grooming of Great Bear. These would take people out of the Mixing Bowl intersection entirely. Making snow on Conclusion would also help. Also, the terrain parks should be removed from Snowdon in the near future, as Stash and Dreammaker open. I would guess those are contributing to the current issues somewhat. It's still better than it was before the tunnels.

I'm not denying there are some overcrowded trails and problematic intersections. I'm saying those issues are rectifiable without turning away hundreds if not thousands of people.

[SPORE]

I waited 10 minutes at Superstar then went to South Ridge and the OL chair for many line-free laps. Boo Hoo!

Again, did you ski at Killington when it was doing 1 million skier visits a year?

I'd bet Snoloco was in Kindergarten the last time Killington was close to 1 million skier visits a year.

Judging by his facebook profile - the answer is no.

[Low Rider]

Third, it's not the same as building occupancy, which is limited by means of egress. The theoretical capacity of most ski areas is limited by parking.

How far down the access road should people have to park before we have reached the theoretical capacity then? Is the lookout not far enough for you?

[rogman]

The metric skiers/acre does not factor in the impact of velocity. Better (shaped) skis and better grooming allow people with less ability to go faster.