Poaching

[ozzy]

The sense on entitlement here is just insane.
What's the first rule of life? Don't do stupid sh*t.
What's the second rule of life? Don't get caught doing stupid sh*t.

It's the classic example of fuk around and find out. Well, now you're finding out.

Killington has been forever a complete joke when it came to closed trails. A rope was nearly a suggestion. Now yes, lots of times trails were closed due to lack of staffing and they could be opened for an hr before they get trashed and roped again, but they remain closed due to staffing, whatever.
Look at any other east coast resort and see how many people poach closed trails. By and large, they don't.

But there has to be a little wiggle room here. Look at Vail resorts. There's signage everywhere of the consequences of getting caught poaching.
If Killington wants to enforce poaching I'm all for it, i am, but use this as a warning instead if dropping the hammer. Also, open terrain that should be open. Its not my problem that six people are trying to patrol all of skye peak, killington peak, snowdon and bear, which happens in spring. Then it shows and all that terrain is still closed.
Pico is even worse. Many, many times that place could be wide open and it isn't. I've politely expressed my concerns at the top shack and the response I get is, there's two people here today trying to patrol this whole place, and we simply can't man all that terrain. If someone is doing snow control on the outpost and a code comes in on summit glade, that's a long response time. So it remains closed. I get that. It happens and that's unfortunate.

I do think Killington should straighten this out with a PR before this gets any bigger. Bottom line, precedent has been set with poaching.
Now let's see some better enforcement on reckless skiing/riding.

[Low Rider]

Also, open terrain that should be open. Its not my problem that six people are trying to patrol all of skye peak, killington peak, snowdon and bear, which happens in spring. Then it shows and all that terrain is still closed.
Pico is even worse. Many, many times that place could be wide open and it isn't. I've politely expressed my concerns at the top shack and the response I get is, there's two people here today trying to patrol this whole place, and we simply can't man all that terrain. If someone is doing snow control on the outpost and a code comes in on summit glade, that's a long response time. So it remains closed. I get that. It happens and that's unfortunate.

People shouldn't poach - although I agree not all poaching is equal.

This is a very good point about open terrain. When we purchase Killington passes, we know that we are buying passes that come at a premium cost (as compared to an Epic or Ikon pass) - but we get no reciprocity at other resorts - so we should expect a premium product in return. Having trails open and ready to ski that should be opened is a reasonable part of that expectation.

I don't know if the trails that were poached should have been open - but with the poor job Killington did with trail rollout this year early season, I can understand why people were anxious to get on additional terrain.

[snoloco]

Normally I think Killington is good about opening trails that should be open. They're a lot better than the Stratton, Gore, or Whiteface, which seem to always leave trails randomly closed.

Ski patrol at most resorts will take passes for poaching. That is to be expected, and you shouldn't duck ropes if you don't want to deal with the consequences. I don't have a problem with Killington pulling passes for poaching. It's the way they're doing it that I have a problem with.

The pace of the trail rollout has been horrendous this year, and it's not all due to weather. Multiple times it was cold enough, they didn't make snow, or ran the system at half capacity. It's unacceptable to lose valuable hours like that. Not an excuse for poaching, but I get why it makes people more likely to do it.

[asher2789]

ending my long hiatus from this place to comment on the poaching -

YES, they have cameras set up. on the runout of the canyon, not sure where else. they cross check that with when you go through the rfid gates to get onto the lift, at least at k1. not sure about snowdon right now since they f*** up the wires when they moved the gates but im pretty sure there was a camera there last year and there will probably be one this year once it gets fixed. theoretically one could go on a poaching spree and change gear at every run, but is it really worth it at this point? if youre gonna do questionable things, start on open terrain and end on open terrain, common sense.

YES, over half the ~100 passes pulled on tuesday were employees, including team leads, supervisors, and other people who should definitely know better! poaching the canyon when there's no trails open in the canyon is an IQ test! its the perfect bottleneck for catching people! (no, i did not get caught poaching the canyon, because i am not dumb enough to poach the canyon - patience is a virtue that i am constantly learning, and this time i was rewarded with a fresh and legal line down escapade)

NO, they don't lose their/dependents passes for the whole season. unsure about dependents in general (i know if a dependent misbehaves it comes back on the employee), but poachers first offense unless they're totally dicks about it is two weeks suspension. and yes, employees whos job requires riding lifts are banned from doing that work for the duration of the suspension. a handful of people got fired, but it was because they already had something on their record, maybe not poaching but lateness to work or other work related issues.

remember how ridiculed i am whenever i bring up labor issues and pay (to the point that ive taken an extended hiatus from this place because im tired of the gaslighting)? this is what we get when we dont pay fair wages and have awful mismanagement in certain departments that causes veterans to quit. more than once a few years ago we had amazing early season conditions and were open to the snowshed crossover the day after world cup ended. even with the profitable race camps that happened for the first time this year after the cup, we still could of had that whole pod open and serious fencing and even patrollers or ambassadors standing at the top to keep those trails private for the race campers. this mountain management wise is very much a good ole boys club of skiers and the amount of talented, capable women who have been pushed out over the years... well i have run out of hands to count on. since its a small town i can't even name departments without it coming back to bite me, but lets just say, it's a factor in why they've been so slow to open terrain that should be and would be open based on previous years. i personally know a lot of seasoned veterans who have left for better opportunities elsewhere due to poor pay and toxic management in their departments that are key to operations.

between the authoritarian and orwellian surveillance techniques to catch poachers (you don't even need to be seen by ski patrol, theyll just remotely shut off your pass and youll get emailed about it) and the new mountain "police" this year to catch anyone who does anything outside of make the same boring skidded turn shapes down the mountain at a moderate pace for "safety", its pretty clear where the mountain is headed. for all the olds griping about people under 40 needing their "safe spaces" it sure seems like the old people need to impose a private nanny state to protect them from the scary expert skiers and riders who are god forbid responsibly jibbing outside of the park or going 'fast' on expert terrain. already one person got their pass pulled for jibbing a side hit on open terrain and having the audacity to post it on instagram.

this will become a mountain for the wealthy and the wealthy only. im sure its only a matter of time before employees get treated like 'the help' and dont even get the privilege of skiing/riding the mountain they make possible. they've got a village to build and real estate to sell, and they want wealthy, young ski families moving in spending the big bucks while working from home and maintaining a 'pied-a-terre' in the big city. those wealthy young ski families don't want grungy snowboarders jibbing side hits or skiers skiing fast, its too scary and a bad example for their precious little ones.

the fact that so many employees poached the canyon and got caught up in the surveillance speaks volumes about operations decisions. im sure those responsible for not opening things in reasonable time wont be the ones to fall for it, they have underlings to scapegoat instead. major management restructuring is needed IMO.

and if yall dont like the surveillance, just wait until its like that everywhere in life. youve got nothing to hide so its no big deal right? only a matter of time before you engage in some wrongthink and find yourself ostracized from modern life. cashless society, cameras everywhere, say the wrong thing on the service formerly known as twitter and your tesla might decide to crash you into the nearest tree. people think im crazy, i think they lack imagination.

[asher2789]

The sense on entitlement here is just insane.
What's the first rule of life? Don't do stupid sh*t.
What's the second rule of life? Don't get caught doing stupid sh*t.

It's the classic example of fuk around and find out. Well, now you're finding out.

Killington has been forever a complete joke when it came to closed trails. A rope was nearly a suggestion. Now yes, lots of times trails were closed due to lack of staffing and they could be opened for an hr before they get trashed and roped again, but they remain closed due to staffing, whatever.
Look at any other east coast resort and see how many people poach closed trails. By and large, they don't.

But there has to be a little wiggle room here. Look at Vail resorts. There's signage everywhere of the consequences of getting caught poaching.
If Killington wants to enforce poaching I'm all for it, i am, but use this as a warning instead if dropping the hammer. Also, open terrain that should be open. Its not my problem that six people are trying to patrol all of skye peak, killington peak, snowdon and bear, which happens in spring. Then it shows and all that terrain is still closed.
Pico is even worse. Many, many times that place could be wide open and it isn't. I've politely expressed my concerns at the top shack and the response I get is, there's two people here today trying to patrol this whole place, and we simply can't man all that terrain. If someone is doing snow control on the outpost and a code comes in on summit glade, that's a long response time. So it remains closed. I get that. It happens and that's unfortunate.

I do think Killington should straighten this out with a PR before this gets any bigger. Bottom line, precedent has been set with poaching.
Now let's see some better enforcement on reckless skiing/riding.

ive been saying this for a while now, ski patrol needs to unionize. cant run the mountain without them. they have the most power to get reasonable working conditions, and theres no better time than now when the mountain has legitimately pissed off a lot of premium-pass paying customers.

[asher2789]

Pulling passes in mass is not good customer service. I understand why the mountain wants/needs to curtail the behavior. I also understand why people poach, and I agree with Snoloco there are different degrees. But pass holders are still customers. You can’t just start pulling the product back and publicly shaming people when it’s never been enforced before. You can control 99% of the behavior with a warning and probation. This can’t be coming from Mike, unless Mike actively wants people to sell their house/condo and move. I haven’t been caught poaching, but if they really are watching cameras and I have to worry every time I go through the gate that maybe somebody dressed like me did something wrong, then I don’t want to ski killington. They don’t do this sh*t at other mountains. I don’t want to have to change my ski outfit so I don’t feel nervous. I don’t want to feel like patrollers are all corrupt cops. I just want to f*** ski and be happy, and I’ll drive to the Bush if I have to.

Mike/the resort needs to get out publicly and adress this PR disaster and tell everybody what really happened, why they had to do it, and why it’s still fun to ski killington. And for f*** sake stop videoing me when I am on vacation.


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just wait, this will be at all of the corporate owned mountains soon enough. the smaller independent places probably wont have the budget for it. people have been fine with government surveillance since 9/11 because theyve got 'nothing to hide'. now that the private sector is doing it, shocked pikachu face.

(i agree with you, just pointing out this is a long time coming, just wait until AI gets better than it currently is for some stronger dystopia vibes)

[Heywood jablowmee]

Have you ever heard of….. Cliff Notes?….please.

[hillbangin]

Look at any other east coast resort and see how many people poach closed trails. By and large, they don't.

But there has to be a little wiggle room here. Look at Vail resorts. There's signage everywhere of the consequences of getting caught poaching.

Ya - Vail's doing a great job - and here's another by and large Eastern Ski Resort....

https://www.powder.com/trending-news/sk ... -cat-cable

Skiers Blasted For Skiing Over Active Winch Cat Cable At Vermont Resort
"It’s a horrible clothesline injury waiting to happen."
Ella BoydDec 6, 2023

Stowe Mountain Rescue was not playing around when they took to Facebook to issue an urgent request to all uphill skiers at Stowe Mountain Resort in Vermont just a few days ago.

"This morning grooming operations had to be put on hold because some skiers actually skied over the active winch cat cable on their glory run down. Yes, you read that right."

[snoloco]

There's no wiggle room on going near a winch cat. You do it, your pass will be gone. Ducking the rope on middle O, or Upper Royal Flush is a lot less severe.

[hillbangin]

There's no wiggle room on going near a winch cat. You do it, your pass will be gone. Ducking the rope on middle O, or Upper Royal Flush is a lot less severe.

That's my point.

All poaches are not equal.

In general, early season poaching on most steep trails isnt too smart.



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[klondick]

Have you ever heard of….. Cliff Notes?….please.

Terminator 2

[Jonnyjuicebag]

Have you ever heard of….. Cliff Notes?….please.

Terminator 2

When KillingtoNet gains sentience we must teach it catchphrases.

[Big Bob]

From what I was told winch cats where developed at Killington to groom Outer Limits.

[rogman]

And here I am still thinking this is the best troll ever…

[wtf021]

I find it hard to believe that K management went from almost not caring at all about poaching to setting up cameras and using AI to bag people. There has to be something else at play here. One thing I haven’t heard anyone mention is K’s image/reputation. Is there any chance they are looking to change it as we get closer to the construction of the village?