Base Camp At Bear can Start Phase 1

[Big Bob]

13% STR tax now, higher than any other state in New England. Property taxes double or triple those of Maine resort towns and CO.
Even NJ doesnt tax you for a view, but VT does..

VT voters need to wake up - 3rd highest education spending in the country but local economy is 49th in country by GDP and somewhere in 50th percentile ranking for income.

NH also has a view tax.

[RENO]

A lot of beautiful places in Colorado! It's good to be filthy rich where you can care less what the taxes or HOA fees are!

[KingsFourMan]

For comparison's sake, here are a couple of same priced +/- $2.9M condos in the heart of Beaver Creek. The taxes are listed for one of them at $5,500/yr which is at least $40,000 a year less than what the state of VT will levy on your Base Camp unit. You can buy A LOT of plane tickets to and from Eagle/Vail for that extra $40,000 per year and you will be skiing Beaver Creek and Vail instead of Killington and Pico. And you will be in the heart of Beaver Creek Village instead of the parking lot at Bear.

Like I keep saying, I just don't get it.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/17-M ... 9108_zpid/

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/120- ... 5419_zpid/

HOA fee: $5,918 quarterly for the first Beaver Creek property. I guess you missed that! HOA fee: $8,393 quarterly for the second property.

There will be substantial HOA fees at the Base Camp as well. Regardless, even if taxes and HOA fees are equal, which they won't be, where would you rather be?

[Big Bob]

Even NJ doesnt tax you for a view, but VT does..

What is considered a view in NJ, looking at the dump in the Meadowlands?

[Bubba]

You get taxed for a view everywhere. It’s essentially part of the value of your house. Better view equals higher home value equals higher assessment.

[asher2789]

We will see.... real estate is supposed to be an investment, not a charity to the state and socialists in Montpelier. Not to mention the new nearly 4% transfer tax or $110k check you get to write to the state for the privilege of signing up for their tax bill. State was salivating over a new revenue source before its even there, should have passed that pre-COVID not right before the bust. I guess they really want to up the wager on whether people will tolerate triple the taxes to drive to VT versus hop on a plane to superior destinations for skiing?

no, real estate is not supposed to be an investment, but a roof over peoples heads, a roof over someones business, working land. houses sitting empty for 80+% of the year is an unproductive use of real estate and deserves to be taxed out of existence when this country is having a massive nationwide housing crisis. and, if were gonna play by your capitalist sh*t and take the whole 'real estate is supposed to be an investment' at the same weight as one would take the theory of gravity, investments are subject to the whims of the market and are not guaranteed to be successful. but one shouldnt take this sh*t as scientific fact because it isnt and has as much factual basis as any of the major religious faiths. real estate is not a speculative investment nor should it ever be. and i f*** bet youre bitching about all the homeless people too.

Congrats on posting the dumbest thing I’ve read on this site. Worse than soccer dads posting about snowmaking improvements. My IQ is now lower after reading your post.

the rest of the developed world with few exceptions does not treat housing like its a f*** casino. no wonder were number one in homelessness.

[asher2789]

For comparison's sake, here are a couple of same priced +/- $2.9M condos in the heart of Beaver Creek. The taxes are listed for one of them at $5,500/yr which is at least $40,000 a year less than what the state of VT will levy on your Base Camp unit. You can buy A LOT of plane tickets to and from Eagle/Vail for that extra $40,000 per year and you will be skiing Beaver Creek and Vail instead of Killington and Pico. And you will be in the heart of Beaver Creek Village instead of the parking lot at Bear.

Like I keep saying, I just don't get it.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/17-M ... 9108_zpid/

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/120- ... 5419_zpid/

its not the $ that matters its the convenience. even if flying by your own personal jet, its what an hour flight from NY to rutland? probably similar timing for boston too. NY to CO is 4? hours and boston 5? thats the difference between skiing the same day you fly and not... and not having to get up crazy early for it. major northeast cities to killington is reasonable commuting distance if youre rich enough to fly it... and just because they have $ doesnt mean they dont have responsibilities you cant throw $ at that ties them down to shorter trips making out west not feasible.

also, youre making an assumption that its killington or beaver creek. with enough $, why not both?

if i had the money to burn i wouldnt buy in killington, id buy in japan, but thats just me.

[GMCrra]

There are plenty of views in NJ. NYC skyline from Jersey City or Hoboken? Jersey Shore ? Northwest NJ/Del water gap or lakes.

View isn't directly taxed, you are taxed on comp sales value in your neighborhood so unless everyone in your hood has a view reflected in their price you aren't taxed. I have good views and pay same as my neighbor without a view.

VT has much more Subjective valuations as there are less direct comps (except condos i guess). And property prices in VT are more volatile up and down, than MA, CT, NJ, NY.

As far as STR tax, I believe Cape Cod includes local tax levies which are disallowed in VT. So I believe the 13% is the highest in New England for a state tax. VT legislature response was that airbnb should lower their 15% fees so VT can charge more? At least Airbnb has provided some innovation and value in the exchange. What value is VT providing a 2nd homeowner for charging an excessive transfer tax, or STR tax that is not charged to hotels ? I guess you could try to argue anti-development and overregulation as a state value ? It's just $ confiscation from people who can't vote. Bad politics and policy, when the root cause is no affordable building and hence little grand list and tax base growth. Fewer sheep to fleece. And they'll probably feel the accentuated effects of bad policy in the next downturn.

Instead of promoting 2nd homeownership which could become full residents in future and business owners etc, you are basically saying don't buy in VT unless you are rich enough to subsidize the state from afar. And those buyers will never become residents subjecting themselves to VTs punitive income tax. It worsens the divide between have and have nots, driving even more income disparity and segregation in the state.

[Heywood jablowmee]

We will see.... real estate is supposed to be an investment, not a charity to the state and socialists in Montpelier. Not to mention the new nearly 4% transfer tax or $110k check you get to write to the state for the privilege of signing up for their tax bill. State was salivating over a new revenue source before its even there, should have passed that pre-COVID not right before the bust. I guess they really want to up the wager on whether people will tolerate triple the taxes to drive to VT versus hop on a plane to superior destinations for skiing?

no, real estate is not supposed to be an investment, but a roof over peoples heads, a roof over someones business, working land. houses sitting empty for 80+% of the year is an unproductive use of real estate and deserves to be taxed out of existence when this country is having a massive nationwide housing crisis. and, if were gonna play by your capitalist sh*t and take the whole 'real estate is supposed to be an investment' at the same weight as one would take the theory of gravity, investments are subject to the whims of the market and are not guaranteed to be successful. but one shouldnt take this sh*t as scientific fact because it isnt and has as much factual basis as any of the major religious faiths. real estate is not a speculative investment nor should it ever be. and i f*** bet youre bitching about all the homeless people too.

Congrats on posting the dumbest thing I’ve read on this site. Worse than soccer dads posting about snowmaking improvements. My IQ is now lower after reading your post.

the rest of the developed world with few exceptions does not treat housing like its a f*** casino. no wonder were number one in homelessness.

Seriously… do you wake every day…..and try and spout at least ONE thing that’ll make others shake their heads and laugh at you… personally? Here’s a clue, oh Persecuted One: the United States…in the matter you’ve opted to site…. Doesn’t even make the top ten list. Please… crack a book… and try to speak something that remotely looks…. Like intelligence. Never too late to start…..

[Mister Moose]

What value is VT providing a 2nd homeowner for charging an excessive transfer tax...

Instead of promoting 2nd homeownership which could become full residents in future and business owners etc, you are basically saying don't buy in VT unless you are rich enough to subsidize the state from afar. And those buyers will never become residents subjecting themselves to VTs punitive income tax. It worsens the divide between have and have nots, driving even more income disparity and segregation in the state.

This prompted me to look up the new law. The new higher transfer tax applies only to STR:
Non-Principal Residence Tax Rate (for a non-long-term rental residence fit for year-round habitation): Increases from 1.25% to 3.40% (3.62% including the Clean Water Surcharge).
https://tax.vermont.gov/property/property-transfer-tax

However, if the new Bear condos are built on wheels, they will be transfer tax exempt:
New Exemptions from the Property Transfer Tax and Clean Water Surcharge:
New ENERGY STAR Mobile Homes: New mobile homes as defined in 10 V.S.A. § 6201(1) that have an ENERGY STAR energy efficiency label and that are certified as a Zero Energy Ready Home by the U.S. Department of Energy.

I think you're right on the disincentive to build the grand list, but Montpelier will only look at the few built and sold that paid the tax and declare victory, rather than realize the lack of greater investment, tax base and jobs that could have been.

[GMCrra]

The transfer tax is on all non primary homestead, not just STR. The 3% surcharge is only on STR on top of the 9% meals and rooms + 1% local option tax.

Both of these are volatile taxes based on economy and tourism, not sure that's a great budget planner. Its poor tax policy. Skiing isn't exactly a high growth industry, so chase it down even more?

Won't a lot of these covid nomads be flying the coop?

[asher2789]

There are plenty of views in NJ. NYC skyline from Jersey City or Hoboken? Jersey Shore ? Northwest NJ/Del water gap or lakes.

View isn't directly taxed, you are taxed on comp sales value in your neighborhood so unless everyone in your hood has a view reflected in their price you aren't taxed. I have good views and pay same as my neighbor without a view.

VT has much more Subjective valuations as there are less direct comps (except condos i guess). And property prices in VT are more volatile up and down, than MA, CT, NJ, NY.

As far as STR tax, I believe Cape Cod includes local tax levies which are disallowed in VT. So I believe the 13% is the highest in New England for a state tax. VT legislature response was that airbnb should lower their 15% fees so VT can charge more? At least Airbnb has provided some innovation and value in the exchange. What value is VT providing a 2nd homeowner for charging an excessive transfer tax, or STR tax that is not charged to hotels ? I guess you could try to argue anti-development and overregulation as a state value ? It's just $ confiscation from people who can't vote. Bad politics and policy, when the root cause is no affordable building and hence little grand list and tax base growth. Fewer sheep to fleece. And they'll probably feel the accentuated effects of bad policy in the next downturn.

Instead of promoting 2nd homeownership which could become full residents in future and business owners etc, you are basically saying don't buy in VT unless you are rich enough to subsidize the state from afar. And those buyers will never become residents subjecting themselves to VTs punitive income tax. It worsens the divide between have and have nots, driving even more income disparity and segregation in the state.

this is the will of vermont voters who are priced out of homes which sit empty 80% of the year, or are merely investment vehicles for out of state wannabe hoteliers. boo f*** hoo that you cant vote. theres plenty of housing, its being hoarded by the wealthy. turning vermont into a bunch of strip malls and suburban sprawl isnt the answer. people buying second homes arent moving here to become mechanics or nurses or teachers, they move here to retire and utilize the services of those who are priced out of first homes.

[jimmywilson69]

While I often don't love your approach this is spot on and unfortunately a very bad consequence of having a large part of the economy being driven by "leisure activities". Outside of few urban areas, VT isn't a hub for technology or manufacturing. Likely because of "the will of the voters". I agree you don't want to turn it into northern NJ, but something has to attract people to the state other than leisure activities.

Affordable housing, including for those working in the leisure industry, should be a priority. I don't know how you do that... At the same time the affordable housing also shouldn't take up the premium locations, just becasue...

Its a big problem that as many have pointed out is only getting worse.

[Skid Mark]

There are plenty of views in NJ. NYC skyline from Jersey City or Hoboken? Jersey Shore ? Northwest NJ/Del water gap or lakes.

View isn't directly taxed, you are taxed on comp sales value in your neighborhood so unless everyone in your hood has a view reflected in their price you aren't taxed. I have good views and pay same as my neighbor without a view.

VT has much more Subjective valuations as there are less direct comps (except condos i guess). And property prices in VT are more volatile up and down, than MA, CT, NJ, NY.

As far as STR tax, I believe Cape Cod includes local tax levies which are disallowed in VT. So I believe the 13% is the highest in New England for a state tax. VT legislature response was that airbnb should lower their 15% fees so VT can charge more? At least Airbnb has provided some innovation and value in the exchange. What value is VT providing a 2nd homeowner for charging an excessive transfer tax, or STR tax that is not charged to hotels ? I guess you could try to argue anti-development and overregulation as a state value ? It's just $ confiscation from people who can't vote. Bad politics and policy, when the root cause is no affordable building and hence little grand list and tax base growth. Fewer sheep to fleece. And they'll probably feel the accentuated effects of bad policy in the next downturn.

Instead of promoting 2nd homeownership which could become full residents in future and business owners etc, you are basically saying don't buy in VT unless you are rich enough to subsidize the state from afar. And those buyers will never become residents subjecting themselves to VTs punitive income tax. It worsens the divide between have and have nots, driving even more income disparity and segregation in the state.

this is the will of vermont voters who are priced out of homes which sit empty 80% of the year, or are merely investment vehicles for out of state wannabe hoteliers. boo f*** hoo that you cant vote. theres plenty of housing, its being hoarded by the wealthy. turning vermont into a bunch of strip malls and suburban sprawl isnt the answer. people buying second homes arent moving here to become mechanics or nurses or teachers, they move here to retire and utilize the services of those who are priced out of first homes.

I wonder if importing thousands of illegal immigrants is driving up housing costs?

[jimmywilson69]

no...

They're living in the streets eating cats and dogs

Clearly you haven't been watching the news.