Opening Day?

[rogman]

Looks like we have cooler temps up top starting next week and by Thursday night (19th/20th) there are great snowmaking temps. It’s getting close!

[KingsFourMan]

Looks like we have cooler temps up top starting next week and by Thursday night (19th/20th) there are great snowmaking temps. It’s getting close!

Not to turn this into a whole global warming debate but I seem to remember that opening day was typically by now most years. The one year I skied opening day which was 1991, I'm pretty sure it was October 4th. There are records of opening day dates that I don't feel like looking up but I think it was usually by now back in the day. I could be wrong though.

Again, not to turn this into a whole political, global warming debate, but you can argue all you want about what is causing climate change - greenhouse gasses, natural cycles, flatulent cows, sun bursts, whatever, but you can't argue that the planet isn't getting warmer, at least not in the very short time period that humans have been keeping records.

I can see it with my own eyes. When I was kid growing up here in Somerset County NJ back in the early to mid 70's, it was almost a given that we would be ice skating and playing hockey on the nearby ponds and lakes by Christmas. We would all get new hockey stuff for Christmas and most years would be using it around the holidays. One odd year we were actually skating Thanksgiving weekend. I drive by many of those same lake and ponds now and they are almost never, if ever, thick enough to support skaters at any time of the winter. Many, if not most years, they don't ice over at all now.

Most ski resorts that were built in VT and the rest of New England back before the advent of snowmaking would never have been built with today's climate. It simply would not have been viable with today's snowfall and winter rainfall amounts.

[Stormchaser]

https://www.killington.com/plan-your-tr ... open-close

2022/23 November 17- June 1
2021/22 November 5 - June 4
2020/21 November 20 - May 16
2019/20 November 3 - March 14 (early closure due to COVID-19)
2018/19 October 19 - June 2
2017/18 November 8 - May 26
2016/17 October 25 - June 1
2015/16 October 18 - May 28
2014/15 November 3 - May 24
2013/14 October 23 - May 18
2012/13 Oct. 13-15; Nov. 5-May 26
2011/12 October 29 - April 22
2010/11 November 2 - May 1
2009/10 November 7 - April 25
2008/09 Nov. 2-6, Nov. 19-May 2
2007/08 November 16 - April 20
2006/07 November 23 - May 6
2005/06 Oct. 29-30; Nov. 19 - May 1
2004/05 November 9 - May 15
2003/04 November 10 - May 12
2002/03 October 25 - May 26
2001/02 November 6 - June 1
2000/01 October 29 - May 27
1999/00 October 25 - May 29
1998/99 October 22 - May 25
1997/98 October 1 - May 25
1996/97 October 4 - June 22
1995/96 October 17 - June 10
1994/95 October 3 - June 4
1993/94 October 1 - June 9
1992/93 October 1 - June 1
1991/92 October 21 - June 14
1990/91 October 27 - May 28
1989/90 October 10 - May 28
1988/89 October 13 - May 21
1987/88 October 12 - June 1

[KingsFourMan]

So, it looks like we are right around average even for the oldest of records.

[Southside_Bobby]

So, it looks like we are right around average even for the oldest of records.

How do you figure? From 1987-2000 it always opened in October. Six of the last ten years it didn't.

[Bubba]

So, it looks like we are right around average even for the oldest of records.

How do you figure? From 1987-2000 it always opened in October. Six of the last ten years it didn't.

Adjust your thinking to include changes in the lift system.

[KingsFourMan]

So, it looks like we are right around average even for the oldest of records.

How do you figure? From 1987-2000 it always opened in October. Six of the last ten years it didn't.

I was just speaking about this year. You are correct that in the past several years it has been later than what it typically used to be back in the day which is what I was thinking in my originally post. Bubba makes a good point that it's also the North Ridge now and not upper Cascade.

But, I also don't think that we see the aggressive onslaught of snowmaking that we used to see from about mid-November until the holidays. Seemed like they used to really let it rip from about mid-November on but not so much anymore. I'm guessing that is because a near 100% complete meltdown is almost a certainty now until about the first or 2nd week of January.

[snoloco]

While things have certainly gotten warmer, Upper Cascade is higher elevation than Rime, and the standards for what was needed to open have greatly increased. It used to be that they'd coat the grass and open up. Now they need enough snow to groom.

The degradation in snowmaking wasn't seen until after the pandemic. Up until 2019, they were always at or close to the front of the pack on terrain expansion. After that, things seemed to just fall apart. Granted, there was bad weather in 2020, 2021, and 2022, but resorts with much weaker snowmaking systems got out ahead.

[KingsFourMan]

While things have certainly gotten warmer, Upper Cascade is higher elevation than Rime, and the standards for what was needed to open have greatly increased. It used to be that they'd coat the grass and open up. Now they need enough snow to groom.

The degradation in snowmaking wasn't seen until after the pandemic. Up until 2019, they were always at or close to the front of the pack on terrain expansion. After that, things seemed to just fall apart. Granted, there was bad weather in 2020, 2021, and 2022, but resorts with much weaker snowmaking systems got out ahead.

We all know about all the deferred maintenance that went on at Killington for years but doesn't it also make sense that they wouldn't want to make a massive amount of snow prior to about the first or 2nd week of January knowing that there is a very high probability that most, if not all of it, will be washing down the Roaring Brook in relatively short order. Doesn't it makes sense to save it for later when the risk is lower?

[rogman]

Bottom of North Ridge is about 3400’. The midstation of the double was also at 3400’. It isn’t the elevation of the top that matters.

[newpylong1]

Look at the topos, were talking maybe a hundred feet of loss (if that) going from Upper Cascade to Rime not enough to skew the historical openings.

Forget that, and forget that they dusted Cascade from GN down to midstation just to get open, things are simply warmer now. Blame whatever you want for it or even say it's cyclical, but that's the main reason. This year and most others there isnt/hasn't been anything remotely resembling snowmaking temps yet. Look at those older dates, they literally made snow in September multiple years. Now? Lucky for October many years.

[snoloco]

I'll be the first to say that the pace of terrain build out the last few years has been disappointing. I don't necessarily see it as a case of intentionally throttling back on snowmaking to save money. You have to go all out from mid-November on to maximize open terrain for the holidays. Every ski resort does that. Last year, they went from one open 4 base area to 5 open base areas in 18 days. There's still a good system, when everything works correctly. The problem last year was that it often didn't work correctly, usually at critical times, and severely hampered their progress.

[Bayfive]

Let’s not forget they are building a World Cup race trail and practice slope for the weekend after thanksgiving

[skiadikt]

there's a couple ways to break it down. first pre & post K1. pre was 1996 and earlier. they were able to "paint" cascade and open as early as oct 1 - though rarely stayed open for the season. in 1997, the 1st season of the K1, they actually opened ramshead 1st on oct 1 for a day or two before opening later in the month for the season (on snowshed and needles). then for a few seasons they did the truckin' thing in the NR before presumably insurance concerns shut that down. in 2002, a late october dump of over 2" enabled them to open most of the north side on nat snow.

then for a number of year, the openings were top-to-bottom until they put the stairway in, which enabled them to open the NR. the next change was 2016, first year of the WC.

certainly "climate change" has been a factor. also their standards have changed. "painting" is no longer acceptable. as opposed to 50 people showing up like in the 80's, now opening day probably draws upwards of 1000. you need a lot more snow. think their snowmaking effort has been consistent in recent years, however since the WC, that has been the priority so K falls "behind" early.

here's a video i made saturday october 24, 1998 - the 1st season of truckin. they did not reopen the next day:
https://youtu.be/RCLqSZlLzCY?si=jxsZwAKVwfioYmVQ

[newpylong1]

Those are really good points and a great video, glad you documented that piece of history. I remember getting brought up to the bottom of Canyon one year too in a hay wagon or something like that. Is my memory correct? Imagine the Tonies putting up with that today? Nope.