Killington Trenton Times article from 3/13...

Bart · Post by **Bart** » Apr 11th, '08, 13:30

bubs, went back and looked at the post, I think pretty much the entire post was unethical as I assume its understood in these types of negotiations that its confidential and in good faith

I don't know what happened at the meeting...but it was likely that was more playing politics on holcomb's part

what could nyberg say...he was probably smart to shut up...although I was not at the meeting...its win the battle lose the war kind of stuff and if you are smart you know when to bite your tongue

local politics draw a lot of people on power trips, that can be a really bad thing for the town

I don't know where else powdr, gave the town a hard time, not even sure how one give's the town a hard time in this context...but on the surface having a smart business partner (and a base village etc) will reap long term benefits for the town if its goal is to be a 4-season resort etc.

Nevada West · Post by **Nevada West** » Apr 11th, '08, 13:35

Bart wrote: what could nyberg say...he was probably smart to shut up...although I was not at the meeting...its win the battle lose the war kind of stuff and if you are smart you know when to bite your tongue

local politics draw a lot of people on power trips, that can be a really bad thing for the town

For a guy that was smart to shut up, he has quite a way with words.

Bart · Post by **Bart** » Apr 11th, '08, 13:54

Revoked bond passes, huge price increases in children’s programs, officially eliminated early season earn your turns, closed down Pico and the Skyship midweek, reduced services at KBL and Bear, season shortened by almost two months (opened late and closing early) while season pass prices increased by a significant amount.

Mountain operations were generally no better or worse than previous seasons.

To me, these are pretty good arguments as why, as a Powdr customer, I’m a bit disappointed. The price increased but the value decreased – not the ratio I’m looking for.

The only significant positive change I experienced as a customer was the noticeable lack of crowds during the weekend and holiday periods. Oh, and the coffee was pretty good.

This is not whining or a gratuitous attack, just real experiences that formed my perceptions.

Yeah OK...not here to defend powdr...my main gripe this season was that grooming was inconsistent and kind of sketchy at times...

I'm trying to focus on what they said they were going to do and what they did...so I guess if that stuff was important to you they suck.

I like it when a business does what they say they will do , so for that, and the fact that this is their first year here...I'm cutting them some slack

btw, I love Pico and see enormous potential there..but I've been there on tues and weds in the past and often wondered how the lack of crowds was sustainable...I'm still a believer in the big picture and I haven't seen anything... yet...that makes me think these guys won't pull it off , time will tell

is this situation analogous to greenspan vs bernanke...the doors are off the economy..bernanke's fault or greenspan's, we're severly tightning our belt's asc's fault or powdr's ?

Post by **Bubba** » Apr 11th, '08, 14:30

Bart wrote:
Revoked bond passes, huge price increases in children’s programs, officially eliminated early season earn your turns, closed down Pico and the Skyship midweek, reduced services at KBL and Bear, season shortened by almost two months (opened late and closing early) while season pass prices increased by a significant amount.

Mountain operations were generally no better or worse than previous seasons.

To me, these are pretty good arguments as why, as a Powdr customer, I’m a bit disappointed. The price increased but the value decreased – not the ratio I’m looking for.

The only significant positive change I experienced as a customer was the noticeable lack of crowds during the weekend and holiday periods. Oh, and the coffee was pretty good.

This is not whining or a gratuitous attack, just real experiences that formed my perceptions.
Yeah OK...not here to defend powdr...my main gripe this season was that grooming was inconsistent and kind of sketchy at times...

I'm trying to focus on what they said they were going to do and what they did...so I guess if that stuff was important to you they suck.

I like it when a business does what they say they will do , so for that, and the fact that this is their first year here...I'm cutting them some slack

btw, I love Pico and see enormous potential there..but I've been there on tues and weds in the past and often wondered how the lack of crowds was sustainable...I'm still a believer in the big picture and I haven't seen anything... yet...that makes me think these guys won't pull it off , time will tell
is this situation analogous to greenspan vs bernanke...the doors are off the economy..bernanke's fault or greenspan's, we're severly tightning our belt's asc's fault or powdr's ?

Problem is, when people ask about the big picture - what's the vision of the ski area in the future, for example - they don't answer. Their answer is always one form or another of "trust us". Well, guess what? Based on their decisions to date, people don't trust them.

KBL Ed · Post by **KBL Ed** » Apr 11th, '08, 14:33

Bart wrote:they are closing earlier than in the past (this is not a surprise, they said they would do this)...

So, just because they told us, it makes it right?

I'm not quite following that logic.

johnny the jibber · Post by **johnny the jibber** » Apr 11th, '08, 14:34

KBL Ed wrote:
Bart wrote:they are closing earlier than in the past (this is not a surprise, they said they would do this)...
So, just because they told us, it makes it right? I'm not quite following that logic.

if skiingsnow says so, then it must be ok...

Post by **Bubba** » Apr 11th, '08, 14:41

Bart wrote:bubs, went back and looked at the post, I think pretty much the entire post was unethical as I assume its understood in these types of negotiations that its confidential and in good faith

I don't know what happened at the meeting...but it was likely that was more playing politics on holcomb's part
what could nyberg say...he was probably smart to shut up...although I was not at the meeting...its win the battle lose the war kind of stuff and if you are smart you know when to bite your tongue

local politics draw a lot of people on power trips, that can be a really bad thing for the town
I don't know where else powdr, gave the town a hard time, not even sure how one give's the town a hard time in this context...but on the surface having a smart business partner (and a base village etc) will reap long term benefits for the town if its goal is to be a 4-season resort etc.

Your lack of understanding of how this town works is understandable but clearly influencing your thoughts. Norm was actually very understanding of Powdr for much of the spring, summer and fall. Jim Blackman was viewed as being very much a "Powdr guy", even writing a letter to the editor of the Rutland Herald last summer, I believe, supporting them and asking people to give Powdr time and give them a chance. Mike Miller, on the other hand, was viewed as having made statements that were anti-Powdr from pretty early on, basically starting about the time Nyberg made his now infamous comparison of the town to parasitic birds eating bugs off the elephant's back. Norm is still trying to find a working middle ground with Powdr and KSRP and is a participant in a committee made up of Nyberg, Selbo, Norm and several others to try to improve communication and improve the relationship between the ski area and the town.

Coydog · Post by **Coydog** » Apr 11th, '08, 14:52

Bart wrote: I like it when a business does what they say they will do , so for that, and the fact that this is their first year here...I'm cutting them some slack

That's nice if the value goes up (or at least doesn’t decrease). If a car manufacturer said "we will increase prices and decrease MPG but you’ll love our new padded steering wheel" and then did exactly that, most customers would take little comfort in knowing the company was true to its word.

Now, after visiting Tremblant, I have seen the light on the village concept at K, especially given the potential of the Pico interconnect. But these guys have not shown a whole lot to generate confidence that they can successfully pull it off.

Bart · Post by **Bart** » Apr 11th, '08, 15:44

bubs, thanks for the explanations...you are right...i get most of my info from this board , links therein, and talking w/ my neighbors...its not a balanced view (btw, i own property in town...pay extra taxes for this privilege and do not have a vote?)

Norm might be a great guy, but being extremely charitable...that was a "tad unprofessional " to post his version of events in a chat room

what your saying is that the town is a little thin-skinned ? it might be that mistakes were made on both sides and they are working to resolve...OK great...my original beef was the options tax...that is a true f'up, one you can't fix that easily ?

Nyberg's comment might be offensive, but they are words (so he f'up, so what), what is good, however (IMO), is that they are investing in the hill ...as they indicated they would...I do not like every decision, but prefer progress to stagnation...I think its a given that they will improve in some areas...(beer gardens ?)

what's up w/ KSRP ? is it a "joint venture" type arrangement...I know from experience that early on these things are completely f'up...I don't know how long selbo and nyberg have been working together or where the so-called vision is coming from but ...they did show a plan that required investment of 100's of millions in K long term...what type of vision are you looking for ?