Lack of expert terrain

[skiadikt]

They seem to be prioritizing lifts above all else, which I don't disagree with. There has been very little staffing related lift downtime. I wouldn't be surprised if some people who were snowmakers at the beginning of the season are now working lifts. That transition happens every year to some extent. My opinion on the best course of action is that terrain expansion should be prioritized and resurfacing should only take place if necessary to keep the trail open. If we'd actually get some natural it would be more feasible.
They make snow into March, so they can focus on increasing base depths then.

no problem with the resurfacing whatever. after the new year's meltdown, it was absolutely necessary.

and right on cue expansion has started full bore tonight with wildfire and panic/needles. upper skyeburst which they started the other day also was expansion because that trail was not gonna reopen w/o it.

the snowmakers don't move to lifts until after snowmaking shutdown. would doubt many, if any are manning lifts. some do transition to grooming as brian has. one of the fellas who went out west usually transitions to grooming.

[iRock]

They seem to be prioritizing lifts above all else, which I don't disagree with. There has been very little staffing related lift downtime. I wouldn't be surprised if some people who were snowmakers at the beginning of the season are now working lifts. That transition happens every year to some extent. My opinion on the best course of action is that terrain expansion should be prioritized and resurfacing should only take place if necessary to keep the trail open. If we'd actually get some natural it would be more feasible.
They make snow into March, so they can focus on increasing base depths then.

So....focus more on getting terrain open rather than running lifts....and focus so much on getting terrain open they don't resurface. So get all the Canyon trails open but don't run the Canyon Quad and turn Snowshed into a literal ice rink...got it.

And don't resurface? That's just assinine. I...like many...would rather ski 4 good trails after a freeze-thaw than zero good trails but have 4 trails open up 3 days later.

[snoloco]

I skied on Friday and it's true that the resurfacing that was done last week was absolutely necessary under the criteria I laid out. A lot of major trails had dirt and rocks poking through before. Now everything that's open is in good shape, at least in terms of coverage, and they won't need to come back to it for a while. They also did expand last week, just not by very much. Little Stash and portions of Bear Trax had not previously seen snowmaking. It's not much, but it is technically expansion. They also moved the progression park from Full House to the bottom of Easy Street. That required a lot of snowmaking on that trail.

[newpylong1]

As annoying as it was to largely see a week go to resurfacing the SAME trails that have been open for weeks, they truly needed it. It's a catch 22, expand and don't resurface and have your customers have a sh*t experience on what's open. Or resurface and don't expand and have folks pissed. Not a good spot to be in... hopefully on to pure expansion for the foreseeable future.

[Captain Hafski]

FWIW: Let's give them credit for re-opening Skyeburst which, in it's current state, is truly expert terrain.

Surpised to see sign at the top of it stating it is Intermediate / Expert terrain. Most intermediates are going to have a long run if they follow that sign.

[allskiing1]

I guess it could be worse

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[Big Bob]

I was at Loon the other day and after lunch tower guns where lighting up on a few trails to resurface that had K link hydrants. I never saw a snowmaker on the hill on those trails.

[tyrolean_skier]

if staffing is an issue then they shouldnt waste employees on VIP parking that nobody is using anyway....as well as opening up the oh so needed parking spots to the general public...The weather certainly has not cooperated, but even out west where they got pounded, they still arent opening as much terrain as they could have open. Vail for instance is only at about 65%. They need staff as bad as Killington does

VIP parking is operated by an outside company this year, not K employees.

I was not aware of this. Either way though, if they are so concerned about parking then they dont need 2 bays of VIP parking, especially when nobody is using them anyway

I think they sold more parking passes than fit in Bay1 so they have to leave spaces available if they all show up because they paid $400+ for that parking pass.

[asher2789]

this is what happens when killington only pays $15 an hour for snowmakers. why be a snowmaker and work long shifts, at night, in the cold and snow; when for a dollar less you can work at dunkin donuts? or for even more $ work at a restaurant. or in construction. so many other jobs that pay the same wage or better without the misery.

and that's why we dont have cascade, high line, panic button/needles eye, etc. the smaller snowmaking team can only focus on resurfacing already open trails during a bad year.

Nah, this is what happens when Congress passes emergency spending bills that pay people not to work

there was $3200 in stimulus money in 3 one time payments that ended a year ago, and unemployment benefits that expired six months ago.

but NoBoDy WaNtS tO wOrK... f*** boomers. go ahead and work for snowmaking then. why not? oh, you don't want to do that job for $15 an hour despite the fact that it will open more expert trails that you entitled whiners are bitching about? how about for a million dollars an hour, would you work for snowmaking then? i certainly would. so its not that nobody wants to work... its NOBODY WANTS TO WORK FOR POVERTY SHITTY ASS f*** WAGES.

[asher2789]

this is what happens when killington only pays $15 an hour for snowmakers. why be a snowmaker and work long shifts, at night, in the cold and snow; when for a dollar less you can work at dunkin donuts? or for even more $ work at a restaurant. or in construction. so many other jobs that pay the same wage or better without the misery.

and that's why we dont have cascade, high line, panic button/needles eye, etc. the smaller snowmaking team can only focus on resurfacing already open trails during a bad year.

Nah, this is what happens when Congress passes emergency spending bills that pay people not to work

I guess nobody told you that that all ended over the summer.

I think for VT, it was this fall. However, the consequences are still being felt.

It's tough for businesses to absorb labor cost doubling. Bernie followers have a tough time understanding economics.

the $300 extra benefit on top of maybe... $250-300 in normal benefits ended on september 4th in VT. wow, these "irresponsible" people are amazing at saving. other states ended their benefits months prior, and no change in the unemployment rate. funny how that works. what's the average rent in vermont? $1000 a month? so these unemployed people are choosing to make so little money that half of it goes to rent? sounds like thats totally the problem! those damn entitled children wanting a fair wage how dare they! lazy millennials! participation trophies!!

f*** boomers.

[asher2789]

this is what happens when killington only pays $15 an hour for snowmakers. why be a snowmaker and work long shifts, at night, in the cold and snow; when for a dollar less you can work at dunkin donuts? or for even more $ work at a restaurant. or in construction. so many other jobs that pay the same wage or better without the misery.

and that's why we dont have cascade, high line, panic button/needles eye, etc. the smaller snowmaking team can only focus on resurfacing already open trails during a bad year.

Killington lost 4 or 5 veteran snowmakers this year to an independent snowmaking operation that pays way better and provides housing . . It was so bad that Jeff Temple had the nerve to call the owner and tell him to stop "stealing" his staff . . Maybe they should have thought about paying a decent wage before people are enticed to leave for better wages and benefits . . Unless you are upper management, Killington will lowball your wages as far as the State and Federal governments will allow . . .

snow park technologies?

exactly. this is the FrEe MaRkEt at work!

[Nikoli]

this is what happens when killington only pays $15 an hour for snowmakers. why be a snowmaker and work long shifts, at night, in the cold and snow; when for a dollar less you can work at dunkin donuts? or for even more $ work at a restaurant. or in construction. so many other jobs that pay the same wage or better without the misery.

and that's why we dont have cascade, high line, panic button/needles eye, etc. the smaller snowmaking team can only focus on resurfacing already open trails during a bad year.

Nah, this is what happens when Congress passes emergency spending bills that pay people not to work

I guess nobody told you that that all ended over the summer.

I think for VT, it was this fall. However, the consequences are still being felt.

It's tough for businesses to absorb labor cost doubling. Bernie followers have a tough time understanding economics.

the $300 extra benefit on top of maybe... $250-300 in normal benefits ended on september 4th in VT. wow, these "irresponsible" people are amazing at saving. other states ended their benefits months prior, and no change in the unemployment rate. funny how that works. what's the average rent in vermont? $1000 a month? so these unemployed people are choosing to make so little money that half of it goes to rent? sounds like thats totally the problem! those damn entitled children wanting a fair wage how dare they! lazy millennials! participation trophies!!

f*** boomers.

Stop freaking out. The market place will find what the price of this type of work is worth. Nothing more

[TheLurker]

Sounds like they need to charge a lot more for season passes to cover the cost of the snow making they demand.

[asher2789]

Nah, this is what happens when Congress passes emergency spending bills that pay people not to work

I guess nobody told you that that all ended over the summer.

I think for VT, it was this fall. However, the consequences are still being felt.

It's tough for businesses to absorb labor cost doubling. Bernie followers have a tough time understanding economics.

the $300 extra benefit on top of maybe... $250-300 in normal benefits ended on september 4th in VT. wow, these "irresponsible" people are amazing at saving. other states ended their benefits months prior, and no change in the unemployment rate. funny how that works. what's the average rent in vermont? $1000 a month? so these unemployed people are choosing to make so little money that half of it goes to rent? sounds like thats totally the problem! those damn entitled children wanting a fair wage how dare they! lazy millennials! participation trophies!!

f*** boomers.

Stop freaking out. The market place will find what the price of this type of work is worth. Nothing more

yeah, the FrEe MaRkEt is at work right now, cant you see? cascade? closed. highline? closed. downdraft? closed. ovation? closed. dreammaker? closed. and that's just the steep trails with snowmaking off the top of my head, there's many more trails im not thinking of. timberline (where the "peace park" goes)? closed, and IMO probably wont even be built at the rate we are going. same with the dreammaker park. and the stash.

unlike 2015/2016, despite having awful snow conditions and thaws we have had plenty of freezing conditions to make snow. it takes ~36 hours of continuous blowing to create a deep enough base for grooming to allow most trails to open. instead of opening new trails, they're running a skeleton crew who are only capable of resurfacing trails that are already open.

its not a lack of water, air compressors, or temperatures. its a lack of labor, caused by a WAGE SHORTAGE. why the f*** would anyone want to work for $15 an hour, overnight in the wet freezing cold doing strenuous hard physical labor walking up and down frozen icy slopes with snowmaking equipment, when down the road you can make coffee and donuts for $14 an hour in a nice warm space? its not like labor lives in wealthy killington - no - they live in rutland and other cheaper commuter towns where there's plenty of jobs much closer that pay roughly the same or even better for way better work. if they don't ski or snowboard they have absolutely no reason to want to work for killington, which pays the lowest possible wages the market will allow (actually lower, which is why there's no workers!), there's no benefits, and often there's no set schedule. the only thing that makes killington an attractive place to work for most of the seasonal labor is the expensive, out of reach for the working class season pass and 50% off F&B and 20-30% off retail and industry discounts. even so, a season pass doesnt pay the bills. and the discounts dont matter if you need to save every penny to pay the bills. and the season pass doesnt matter if you have no free time / energy to use it.

so entitled whiny skiers will continue to whine about lack of expert terrain yet also whine when labor wants its fair share. or worse, call us workers who make their lives of luxury possible entitled and lazy. f*** sick of the gaslighting. you want open trails? pay for them! or better yet - apply to be a snowmaker - killington is hiring, $15 an hour!

[E O Eleven]