Lack of expert terrain

[Guy in Shorts]

I blame the boomers too. Stupid boomers, they ruined the climate.

Hey I split atoms for a living. Just like Homer Simpson working in section 7G. Nuc Power is low on the climate harming list. All I need in retirement is my favorite steep lines filled with snow. Really not asking for much.

[brownman]

istockphoto-512330454-612x612.jpg (33.97 KiB) Viewed 1907 times

You have 2 remaining wishes ..

[ski]

I guess nobody told you that that all ended over the summer.

I think for VT, it was this fall. However, the consequences are still being felt.

It's tough for businesses to absorb labor cost doubling. Bernie followers have a tough time understanding economics.

the $300 extra benefit on top of maybe... $250-300 in normal benefits ended on september 4th in VT. wow, these "irresponsible" people are amazing at saving. other states ended their benefits months prior, and no change in the unemployment rate. funny how that works. what's the average rent in vermont? $1000 a month? so these unemployed people are choosing to make so little money that half of it goes to rent? sounds like thats totally the problem! those damn entitled children wanting a fair wage how dare they! lazy millennials! participation trophies!!

f*** boomers.

Stop freaking out. The market place will find what the price of this type of work is worth. Nothing more

yeah, the FrEe MaRkEt is at work right now, cant you see? cascade? closed. highline? closed. downdraft? closed. ovation? closed. dreammaker? closed. and that's just the steep trails with snowmaking off the top of my head, there's many more trails im not thinking of. timberline (where the "peace park" goes)? closed, and IMO probably wont even be built at the rate we are going. same with the dreammaker park. and the stash.

unlike 2015/2016, despite having awful snow conditions and thaws we have had plenty of freezing conditions to make snow. it takes ~36 hours of continuous blowing to create a deep enough base for grooming to allow most trails to open. instead of opening new trails, they're running a skeleton crew who are only capable of resurfacing trails that are already open.

its not a lack of water, air compressors, or temperatures. its a lack of labor, caused by a WAGE SHORTAGE. why the f*** would anyone want to work for $15 an hour, overnight in the wet freezing cold doing strenuous hard physical labor walking up and down frozen icy slopes with snowmaking equipment, when down the road you can make coffee and donuts for $14 an hour in a nice warm space? its not like labor lives in wealthy killington - no - they live in rutland and other cheaper commuter towns where there's plenty of jobs much closer that pay roughly the same or even better for way better work. if they don't ski or snowboard they have absolutely no reason to want to work for killington, which pays the lowest possible wages the market will allow (actually lower, which is why there's no workers!), there's no benefits, and often there's no set schedule. the only thing that makes killington an attractive place to work for most of the seasonal labor is the expensive, out of reach for the working class season pass and 50% off F&B and 20-30% off retail and industry discounts. even so, a season pass doesnt pay the bills. and the discounts dont matter if you need to save every penny to pay the bills. and the season pass doesnt matter if you have no free time / energy to use it.

so entitled whiny skiers will continue to whine about lack of expert terrain yet also whine when labor wants its fair share. or worse, call us workers who make their lives of luxury possible entitled and lazy. f*** sick of the gaslighting. you want open trails? pay for them! or better yet - apply to be a snowmaker - killington is hiring, $15 an hour!

I think I love this rant . . .

[Mister Moose]

yeah, the FrEe MaRkEt is at work right now, cant you see? cascade? closed. highline? closed. downdraft? closed. ovation? closed. dreammaker? closed.

..... <Lengthy asher rant>

I think I agree with most of this, except time. You aren't giving the marketplace enough time to recognize change and adapt. That plus COVID uncertainty. And a bad winter so far. Not the best mix lately.

Little did we know 2018 was the good old days.

[skiadikt]

I guess nobody told you that that all ended over the summer.

I think for VT, it was this fall. However, the consequences are still being felt.

It's tough for businesses to absorb labor cost doubling. Bernie followers have a tough time understanding economics.

the $300 extra benefit on top of maybe... $250-300 in normal benefits ended on september 4th in VT. wow, these "irresponsible" people are amazing at saving. other states ended their benefits months prior, and no change in the unemployment rate. funny how that works. what's the average rent in vermont? $1000 a month? so these unemployed people are choosing to make so little money that half of it goes to rent? sounds like thats totally the problem! those damn entitled children wanting a fair wage how dare they! lazy millennials! participation trophies!!

f*** boomers.

Stop freaking out. The market place will find what the price of this type of work is worth. Nothing more

yeah, the FrEe MaRkEt is at work right now, cant you see? cascade? closed. highline? closed. downdraft? closed. ovation? closed. dreammaker? closed. and that's just the steep trails with snowmaking off the top of my head, there's many more trails im not thinking of. timberline (where the "peace park" goes)? closed, and IMO probably wont even be built at the rate we are going. same with the dreammaker park. and the stash.

unlike 2015/2016, despite having awful snow conditions and thaws we have had plenty of freezing conditions to make snow. it takes ~36 hours of continuous blowing to create a deep enough base for grooming to allow most trails to open. instead of opening new trails, they're running a skeleton crew who are only capable of resurfacing trails that are already open.

its not a lack of water, air compressors, or temperatures. its a lack of labor, caused by a WAGE SHORTAGE. why the f*** would anyone want to work for $15 an hour, overnight in the wet freezing cold doing strenuous hard physical labor walking up and down frozen icy slopes with snowmaking equipment, when down the road you can make coffee and donuts for $14 an hour in a nice warm space? its not like labor lives in wealthy killington - no - they live in rutland and other cheaper commuter towns where there's plenty of jobs much closer that pay roughly the same or even better for way better work. if they don't ski or snowboard they have absolutely no reason to want to work for killington, which pays the lowest possible wages the market will allow (actually lower, which is why there's no workers!), there's no benefits, and often there's no set schedule. the only thing that makes killington an attractive place to work for most of the seasonal labor is the expensive, out of reach for the working class season pass and 50% off F&B and 20-30% off retail and industry discounts. even so, a season pass doesnt pay the bills. and the discounts dont matter if you need to save every penny to pay the bills. and the season pass doesnt matter if you have no free time / energy to use it.

so entitled whiny skiers will continue to whine about lack of expert terrain yet also whine when labor wants its fair share. or worse, call us workers who make their lives of luxury possible entitled and lazy. f*** sick of the gaslighting. you want open trails? pay for them! or better yet - apply to be a snowmaker - killington is hiring, $15 an hour!

certainly some valid points, but it's not only here at K, it's industry-wide. the vail owned areas are in terrible shape and in addition to poor conditions and lack of terrain are suffering from massive overcrowding.

by contrast we're doing pretty well. better than most areas in the east. the resurfacing before expansion was absolutely necessary. despite your experience, the mtn skied great today. we got a couple new trails the last few days and more are on the way particularly with the arctic blast coming this week. there's still another month of snowmaking coming so while maybe a couple trails don't make the cut, thinking most on the list get done as long as mother nature cooperates.

[hillbangin]

Red up in BC closed 1 side of the mountain yesterday.

Ridiculous.

Pay the people and they will come.

Pennywise and dollar foolish.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[Nikoli]

yeah, the FrEe MaRkEt is at work right now, cant you see? cascade? closed. highline? closed. downdraft? closed. ovation? closed. dreammaker? closed.

..... <Lengthy asher rant>

I think I agree with most of this, except time. You aren't giving the marketplace enough time to recognize change and adapt. That plus COVID uncertainty. And a bad winter so far. Not the best mix lately.

Little did we know 2018 was the good old days.

I can’t wait for robot snow makers.

[4-mile]

yeah, the FrEe MaRkEt is at work right now, cant you see? cascade? closed. highline? closed. downdraft? closed. ovation? closed. dreammaker? closed.

..... <Lengthy asher rant>

I think I agree with most of this, except time. You aren't giving the marketplace enough time to recognize change and adapt. That plus COVID uncertainty. And a bad winter so far. Not the best mix lately.

Little did we know 2018 was the good old days.

I can’t wait for robot snow makers.

It wouldn't surprise me if more areas now invest in computerized snowmaking syatems for the major areas of terrain, and eliminate the need for as many employees. Some smaller areas already have it.

[Big Bob]

I remember not to long ago that Vail raised their minimum pay to $15.00 per hour and this was back when burger flippers were hoping for that wage. They were ahead of this, but got left in the dust when Covid somehow started an employee drought.

[easyrider16]

I can’t wait for robot snow makers.

It wouldn't surprise me if more areas now invest in computerized snowmaking syatems for the major areas of terrain, and eliminate the need for as many employees. Some smaller areas already have it.

I would be curious to know whether Killington's snowmaking crew has changed in size over the last decade. Do they make more snow now with less people than they did 10 years ago? I would bet they do.

[skiadikt]

someone mentioned 2015-16 which was the season with the lowest recorded snowfall. took all of a minute to dig up this post by jeff temple. despite all of this season's challenges in terms of weather, staffing etc, we are so far ahead of that season in term of terrain. btw still skied to 5/28 in 2016.

Post by Killington Resort » Wed Jan 06, 2016 9:29 am
Terrain Plan Update 1-6-16 - from Jeff Temple / Director Mountain Operations
I want to update you on changes to the terrain expansion plan as communicated in Mike Solimano’s recent blog; http://www.killington.com/site/culture/blog. The volatility of each new weather forecast requires us to tweak and adapt our plan accordingly, so that we get the absolute most out of our snowmaking system. The great news is that we have had a couple of days of arctic like temperatures and have taken well advantage of every second of that time.

Due to the forecast changes we both increased expansion rate and moved to some different terrain than communicated previously. We will be opening up terrain at all ability levels in the Needles Eye, Snowshed and Canyon areas as follows:
• Snowshed trail, as planned opens up Wednesday the 6th along with the ALA learning area and accessed by the Snowshed 3 Express Quad. K1 Lodge, Snowshed and Ramshead lodges will now all be connected within a few minutes of skiing from each other.
• In the Canyon area, Lower East Fall and the Cascade Run-out should be ready for Thursday the 7th with the Canyon Quad chairlift operating on Friday the 8th.
• Highline trail has dual snowmaking pipelines running on it today, with an expected opening later in the week.
• Upper Mouse Terrain Park is packed with snow, soon with features opening on Friday the 8th.
• The most significant change from the terrain plan communicated earlier, is snowmaking production on Panic Button / Needles Eye trail top to bottom, along with Middle and Lower High Road accessed by the Needles Eye Express Quad on Friday and the Northbrook Quad chairlift on Saturday.
• Although moderating, we will have temperatures throughout the week for snowmaking and plan to work on Upper Vertigo to the Snowshed Crossover. In addition we will be on Upper and Lower Cruise Control, middle Cascade as well as beginning the migration into the Bear Mountain area.

With this years continued weather volatility, I will follow this up with timely terrain updates as well as take some time to answer many of the "why did we go here" and "why haven't we gone there" questions.
JT

[newpylong1]

Their number requirements have not changed substantially in the past decade. There has been no investment in automation and very little on fixed gear. Even where there is fixed gear they continue using land guns sometimes. Old habits die hard.

Moving to fixed gear on the runs that lack them now would really change those staffing levels. Lugging tripods and hoses around across the resort is time consuming and labor intensive.

[easyrider16]

Their number requirements have not changed substantially in the past decade. There has been no investment in automation and very little on fixed gear. Even where there is fixed gear they continue using land guns sometimes. Old habits die hard.

Moving to fixed gear on the runs that lack them now would really change those staffing levels. Lugging tripods and hoses around across the resort is time consuming and labor intensive.

I guess then that until this year paying people to lug around guns was cheaper than investing in automation. Hopefully one positive from Covid is that they invest more into automation. I would love to see them put up more of those fixed low-e guns.

[throbster]

I guess nobody told you that that all ended over the summer.

I think for VT, it was this fall. However, the consequences are still being felt.

It's tough for businesses to absorb labor cost doubling. Bernie followers have a tough time understanding economics.

the $300 extra benefit on top of maybe... $250-300 in normal benefits ended on september 4th in VT. wow, these "irresponsible" people are amazing at saving. other states ended their benefits months prior, and no change in the unemployment rate. funny how that works. what's the average rent in vermont? $1000 a month? so these unemployed people are choosing to make so little money that half of it goes to rent? sounds like thats totally the problem! those damn entitled children wanting a fair wage how dare they! lazy millennials! participation trophies!!

f*** boomers.

Stop freaking out. The market place will find what the price of this type of work is worth. Nothing more

yeah, the FrEe MaRkEt is at work right now, cant you see? cascade? closed. highline? closed. downdraft? closed. ovation? closed. dreammaker? closed. and that's just the steep trails with snowmaking off the top of my head, there's many more trails im not thinking of. timberline (where the "peace park" goes)? closed, and IMO probably wont even be built at the rate we are going. same with the dreammaker park. and the stash.

unlike 2015/2016, despite having awful snow conditions and thaws we have had plenty of freezing conditions to make snow. it takes ~36 hours of continuous blowing to create a deep enough base for grooming to allow most trails to open. instead of opening new trails, they're running a skeleton crew who are only capable of resurfacing trails that are already open.

its not a lack of water, air compressors, or temperatures. its a lack of labor, caused by a WAGE SHORTAGE. why the f*** would anyone want to work for $15 an hour, overnight in the wet freezing cold doing strenuous hard physical labor walking up and down frozen icy slopes with snowmaking equipment, when down the road you can make coffee and donuts for $14 an hour in a nice warm space? its not like labor lives in wealthy killington - no - they live in rutland and other cheaper commuter towns where there's plenty of jobs much closer that pay roughly the same or even better for way better work. if they don't ski or snowboard they have absolutely no reason to want to work for killington, which pays the lowest possible wages the market will allow (actually lower, which is why there's no workers!), there's no benefits, and often there's no set schedule. the only thing that makes killington an attractive place to work for most of the seasonal labor is the expensive, out of reach for the working class season pass and 50% off F&B and 20-30% off retail and industry discounts. even so, a season pass doesnt pay the bills. and the discounts dont matter if you need to save every penny to pay the bills. and the season pass doesnt matter if you have no free time / energy to use it.

so entitled whiny skiers will continue to whine about lack of expert terrain yet also whine when labor wants its fair share. or worse, call us workers who make their lives of luxury possible entitled and lazy. f*** sick of the gaslighting. you want open trails? pay for them! or better yet - apply to be a snowmaker - killington is hiring, $15 an hour!

So much anger. Also a lot of whining. A boomer built this ski area, so lighten up sweetheart

[newpylong1]

Their number requirements have not changed substantially in the past decade. There has been no investment in automation and very little on fixed gear. Even where there is fixed gear they continue using land guns sometimes. Old habits die hard.

Moving to fixed gear on the runs that lack them now would really change those staffing levels. Lugging tripods and hoses around across the resort is time consuming and labor intensive.

I guess then that until this year paying people to lug around guns was cheaper than investing in automation. Hopefully one positive from Covid is that they invest more into automation. I would love to see them put up more of those fixed low-e guns.

Automation on the trails that are resurfaced the most may make sense, and Superstar. For the rest, just getting fixed gear in and USING it would be leaps and bounds ahead. I cringe every time I see one of their utility cats moving around 20 guns and hoses at a time from one end of the mountain to the other. Doesn't get any less efficient than that. One of the contributing factors is when the posts were put in on some trails they were put in in the wrong locations and can't reach onto the trail. Wildfire, Skyeburst (what was lower Bear Claw) are good current examples. They need to use ground guns to reach further out. So they really need to take inventory everywhere and relocate the posts to where they will be useful prior to spending money on new gear.

Look at what Sunday River was able to do this year... They're on their last handful of trails now already. Their temps were no better, usually worse. No more staff than Killington... nearly everything had fixed gear though that's been covered as of now.

This year is a perfect storm, but I think for the future K has to do something. They have far more water and air than is being utilized right now.